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Destroying the trees on the Gettysburg Battlefield (vanity)
Old Lady ^
| March 18, 2005
| Old Lady
Posted on 03/18/2005 10:44:28 AM PST by Old Phone Man
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To: Strategerist
If you are disappointed by Gettysburg, consider that it was spared a better fate than the sites of The Battle of Harlem Heights and the battle of Long Island from the War of Independence. Both merely look like the rest of NYC with only plaques at the old Morris Jumel Mansion at the former and in Fort Green Park in the case of the latter.
61
posted on
03/18/2005 12:16:59 PM PST
by
Clemenza
(Alcohol Tobacco & Firearms: The Other Holy Trinity)
To: Clemenza
The Battle of Harlem Heights Last time I drove through the battle appeared to still be going on.
62
posted on
03/18/2005 12:18:46 PM PST
by
Rodney King
(No, we can't all just get along.)
To: Old Phone Man
From the Chickamauga & Chattanooga National Military Park commissioners:
"There will be no place here for the gaudy display of rich equipages and show of wealth; no place for lovers to bide tryst; no place for pleasure-seekers or loungers. The hosts that in the future come to the grand Park will come rather with feelings of awe or reverence. Here their better natures will be aroused; here they will become imbued with grand and lofty ideas; with courage and patriotism; with devotion to duty and love of country. "
Source: U.S. House of Representatives. Office Building for Commission, Chickamauga National Park. Report No. 786, 61 Cong., 2 Sess., 1910, p. 1. Further comments by the Secretary of War:
The work of restoring the field to its condition at the time of the battle has progressed rapidly. Seventeen State commissions have been organized to locate the positions of State troops, and the national commission expects that the remaining nine States which had troops engaged in the battle will create commissions during the coming winter. Several State commissions have already visited the park and established the positions of the troops of their respective States. Ohio has appropriated $95,000 for monuments, fifty-six of which will soon be erected; Minnesota has appropriated $15,000 for five monuments, and during the coming session legislatures of other States are expected to take similar action. Seven granite monuments have been erected in memory of the regular troops engaged at Chickamauga, and five observation towers have been erected, offering comprehensive view of the field of conflict.
Source: Report of the Secretary of War, 1893, p. 33.
To: Old Phone Man
You sound like you think you own the park, or worse, that your suffering under the delusion that you and the park have a special, supernatural bond that is simply beyond others understanding. I'm not saying that you are- but that's the way you are coming across.
Also, trees don't really have death throes- they pretty much just fall over when they are cut down. As far as killing the deer let's face it, they are in no danger of extinction. A strong argument can be made that they are so overpopulating our environment that they are a pestilence. Their only remaining predators are cars.
To: Old Phone Man
The present Park administration is bilking the taxpayers of millions of dollars Can you provide proof of this claim? Much of the tree cutting money is donated by a private philanthropical group dedicated to battlefield preservation and study of the Civil War. If other aspects of the park are neglected it is because of budgetary constraints. Cutting trees in most cases, comes from the private sector.
To: Strategerist
"But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate -- we can not consecrate -- we can not hallow -- this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."
That's what Abraham Lincoln said about the Gettysburg battlefield. To paraphrase: we don't dedicate the battlefield...the battlefield dedicates us.
The very purpose of the battlefield and our reason for visiting it is to rededicate ourselves to the cause of liberty and government of, by, and for the people. A battlefield that evokes the summer of 1863 is best suited to that purpose.
The monuments weren't there in 1863, but many are located where the regiments commemorated actually fought and died, thus helping the pilgrim to rededicate him- or herself to the intended purpose.
The South fought fiercely at Gettysburg, despite an inferior battlefield position, because they knew that foreign powers were watching to decide whether to aid the South. Thus Gettysburg was the high-water mark of the Confederacy in more than one sense (geographically and politically).
66
posted on
03/18/2005 12:32:46 PM PST
by
Sarastro
To: First_Salute
That's not the trees being cut down. The post indicates that the park service is planning to cut trees that have grown since the time of the battles. This doesn't effect what trees may have been there at the time of the War.
67
posted on
03/18/2005 12:37:29 PM PST
by
TheBattman
(Islam (and liberals)- the cult of Satan)
A year ago I spent much of a day walking various battle sites spread over the sprawling battle ground of Chickamauga. It appeared to me that many of the actual fields-of-fire were as they had been.
That feature allowed me to mentally walk through my readings on this great event where both sides displayed their best and worst. I know that comforting surroundings, even if lately grown and different from historical are hard to leave behind. The confusion between change and preservation to a growing landscape can certainly be frustrating. But I hope those discomforted can lay it aside and perhaps see the surroundings anew by looking at them as if they had been there at the time.
68
posted on
03/18/2005 12:37:59 PM PST
by
KC Burke
(Men of intemperate minds can never be free....)
To: 95Tarheel
As far as killing the deer let's face it, they are in no danger of extinction. A strong argument can be made that they are so overpopulating our environment that they are a pestilence. Their only remaining predators are cars.Until they culled the deer herd at G'burg, you'd swear that you were looking at cattle from Little Roundtop, there was so darn many of them. I've never seen so many whitetail in one place and in the open. No fear. Try driving the battle lines when there are deer bolting in front of you in broad daylight.
69
posted on
03/18/2005 12:40:04 PM PST
by
Tallguy
To: Old Phone Man
A picture is worth a thousand words, and I possess about five hundred pictures... Still counting, too.
Probably the same 500+ images that I have within my 300+ book strong Civil War library at home.
The present Park administration is bilking the taxpayers of millions of dollars by NOT maintaining the REAL neccessities of the Park...
I have no idea what you are talking about here. The park's administration goes out of its way to make it accessible to everyone, complete with tour presentations and appropriate facilities for all tourists and visitors.
99% of the deer have been killed off so the Park can plant seedlings for countless orchards that were here at the time of the battle...
A special group of professional hunters from the Department of Agriculture were in fact hired a couple of years ago to do this at night with silenced rifles and starlight scopes. The reason for it was that the park was grossly overpopulated with thousands of white-tailed deer, which most sportsmen know do not migrate and tend to stay within a square-mile or so of their birthplaces for their entire lives. Consequently, they were in danger of starving to death, and moreover, their sheer numbers had caused them to become a serious traffic hazard on Emmitsburg Road. Orchards and seedlings had nothing to do with it. Believe me there are no shortage of deer in the area, and on any given morning, I can look out in my far back yard and see a number of them grazing in the early morning light.
Fence lines are changed countlessly to appease the current superintendent.
No, they are routinely rearranged based upon current research of the original lines from period maps and photographs.
If you want to really know any battlefield you have to walk its land continually, reference your own maps and read constantly.. When you do this you learn to appreciate and respect nature...
Yep, I read constantly, enough in fact that I earned a Master's Degree in American History. And yes, I do appreciate and respect nature, but that is not purview of the military park.
You don't have to depend on some politically correct Nazi superintendant raping the land to appease those in kind and his (0r her) legacy. How can you accuse the current superintendent of being both politically correct and a Nazi (contradition in terms?) when you don't even know who is he. I do know him, and he is a fine man and a thorough professional who is devoted to preserving the battlefield and its history. I would be very careful before hurling insults at him as you have done, sir, without being better informed.
To: Graycliff
Isn't Vicksburg the battle they portrayed at the beginning of Cold Mountain where the damn yanks tunneled under the Glorious Southron Defenders' lines like a bunch of damned palestinians and blew them up, then lost the battle by getting stuck in the hole?
If so there were a heck of a lot of timbers required for those trenches I would imagine.
71
posted on
03/18/2005 12:43:37 PM PST
by
johnb838
(Dissolve the goobernment. Need some wood?)
To: TheBattman
No park will cut down trees that were present during the battle unless they become a safety hazzard. The park historians at our Civil War battlefield parks are some of the most professional and conscientious people I have ever met. They have a deep sense of responsibility for the history of the parks and sacrifices that were made there.
To: johnb838
To: johnb838
Actually, the Battle of the Crater (July 30, 1864) at Petersburg, Virginia was what was portrayed at the beginning of 'Cold Mountain.' I don't think Vickburg as been done yet, except in the old 1980s miniseries "The Blue and the Grey."
To: Old Phone Man
This is a ridulous plea. If left by itself, soon the whole park will be a dense forest. I would much prefer it be kept clear where it was clear in 1863 and forested where it was forested in 1863. As is there are places where battles took place in the open that are now covered in dense forests.
Would you want the area of Pickett's charge to be a forest or an open field?
75
posted on
03/18/2005 12:55:39 PM PST
by
FreedomCalls
(It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
To: Virginia Ridgerunner
Not meaning to make an off topic tangent, but I would love to see a movie done about the Vicksburg campaign. US Grant really showed his genius and tenacity during that one.
To: Old Lady
Now ALMOST ALL the shade trees in Devil's Den have been destroyed. It will be impossible to sit there in the summer in 80-90 degree heat in the burning sun. There were no shade trees there in July of 1863! Perhaps you would have them enclose the whole area and erect an air-conditioned pavilion for your "tourists" instead?
77
posted on
03/18/2005 12:58:40 PM PST
by
FreedomCalls
(It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
To: contemplator
Gods and Generals lost so much money that it has killed any interest in filming purely Civil War movies for quite some time.
To: taxesareforever
However, I am opposed to those actions that try to simulate the past. Do you want the whole park to return to being one large overgrown forest?
79
posted on
03/18/2005 1:00:13 PM PST
by
FreedomCalls
(It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
To: FreedomCalls
I think a monorail running along the battlelines would be nice, that way we could have airconditioning and not disturb the happy trees and smiling deer.
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