Michael Schiavo on 'Nightline' (Includes Transcript)

ABC News ^ | Mar. 15, 2005

[nickcarraway]

Husband at the Heart of the 'Right to Die' Case Speaks to Chris Bury

Mar. 15, 2005 - Michael Schiavo won a series of lengthy court battles for the right to take his severely-disabled wife Terri off life support, but now faces a new challenge from Florida lawmakers who are seeking to pass a bill that would stop him from doing so.

Terri Schiavo collapsed in 1990 and suffered severe brain damage. She has been kept alive by a feeding tube ever since and has been unable to speak or care for herself. Her parents have insisted she is not in a persistent vegetative state, as doctors appointed by the court have concluded. They also believe she would not have wanted to be allowed to die.

While Michael Schiavo has only rarely spoken to the press, he gave an interview to ABC News' Chris Bury as the bill moves through the state legislature and the day for removing his wife's feeding tube approaches.

The following is a transcript of their conversation.

BURY: Joining us now from Dunedin, Fla., Michael Schiavo and his lawyer George Felos.

Michael, you've had very little to say outside of what's been filed in the legal briefs over the last year or so. Why have you decided to come out tonight and have something to say?

SCHIAVO: The reason why I've been keeping private for the longest time ever here, I've always wanted to protect my wife's privacy. I don't like -- I didn't want to put her picture all over the news. I just wanted to keep her private.

And today, and what's going on in the legislation, is really the reason why I'm starting to speak out, because it's outrageous.

BURY: When you say the legislation, I assume what you're talking about is the bill back now in the Florida legislature, which actually passed a committee in the legislature today and could be on Gov. Bush's desk by Friday, which is the same day that Terri's feeding tubes are to be removed. Is that right?

SCHIAVO: That's correct.

You know, it's really uncomprehensible to think that a private family matter that has gone through the judiciary system for the past seven years -- I mean, we're talking all the way up to the United States Supreme Court -- and for a governor to come into this without any education on the subject and push his personal views into this and have his Republican legislation pass laws so that this doesn't happen.

He's basically jumping right over the state court's decision. We might as well not have any state courts.

BURY: Just, Michael, so we can all understand the legislation -- as I understand it, this would require that before the feeding tubes could be removed from someone in a vegetative state, they would have had to have left written instructions to the effect that that was OK with that. Is that correct?

SCHIAVO: That's what they're trying to pass now, yes.

BURY: And let me ask your lawyer, George Felos: How problematic is this legislation for you?

FELOS: Chris, this is the second time this has happened.

As everyone knows, in October 2003 the governor sent armed men to Terri's death bed, took her to a hospital and had surgery performed on her against her will.

The Florida Supreme Court said that was unconstitutional, and it also said there is absolutely nothing the Florida legislature can pass that can undo the result in Terri Schiavo's case. Yet, in response to political pressure, the legislature is poised to pass another unconstitutional bill.

And not only that, it's not just Floridians' rights that are at stake, but everyone in the country. There is a bill in the United States Congress, and this bill in the United States Congress would virtually let any family member bring a federal court habeas corpus proceeding, which would tie up a case like that for years in federal court, which would make it virtually impossible for anyone to remove artificial life support.

And I want to mention, too, for everyone listening out there, this bill, filed in federal court, does not pertain just to vegetative patients. It doesn't pertain just to removal of feeding tubes. It pertains to removal or refusal of any type of medical treatment.

BURY: Just for the sake of argument, if this Florida bill moves through the legislature and Governor Bush signs it as early as Friday, does that move the whole thing back into the courts?

SCHIAVO: Well, we'll have to see what, in fact, passes on Friday.

It may very well delay implementation of Terri's rights. We certainly hope that it will not. But it is beyond any doubt that the Florida Supreme Court will once again declare such a law unconstitutional.

BURY: Michael, did Terri, your wife, leave any kind of written instructions about her wishes?

SCHIAVO: She didn't leave any written instructions. She has verbally expressed her wishes to me and other people.

BURY: She had verbally expressed them in what context exactly?

SCHIAVO: Through watching some TV program, a conversation that happened regarding her uncle that was very ill.

BURY: And how long ago was that?

SCHIAVO: Oh, we're talking -- it's now been 15 years. We're talking a couple of year, three years before this happened to Terri.

BURY: So there's no kind of written record at all. It's basically your recollection and those of other family members.

SCHIAVO: Yes, it is.

FELOS: But, Chris…

BURY: Go ahead, George.

FELOS: You have to remember that statistics show that something around 20 to 30 percent of adult Americans have written living wills. And if you're going to try to restrict families and patients from making decisions to stop artificial life support because patient declarations were oral, then the vast majority of Americans are going to be prevented from making these types of decisions.

SCHIAVO: People make these comments all the time. They talk about this with their loved ones every day. People's feedings -- tube feedings -- are stopped across this country every day.

If my wife wasn't the celeb, as everybody is calling her now, there would be no discussion in the legislation right now.

My other -- are they going to start pushing legislation for removing ventilators? Are they going to start forcing people to take chemo against their wishes?

What they're doing is, they're making the decisions for us. That's what this country is coming down to. They're going to make the decisions for us.

BURY: In this…

SCHIAVO: Big Brother is going to do that.

BURY: Michael, in the heated rhetoric that's swirling around this case and has been for a number of years now -- all kinds of charges have been flying back and forth.

First of all, do you stand to benefit financially in any way from your wife's death?

SCHIAVO: There is no money. I will receive not a penny.

BURY: You did receive something of a malpractice settlement north of $1 million at one point, is that correct?

SCHIAVO: Yes.

FELOS: Well, no.

BURY: And what happened to that?

FELOS: Michael didn't receive those funds. Those were received in Terri's guardianship and it was a bank who was her guardian of the property that administered those funds.

BURY: But the question remains: What happened to those funds?

FELOS: Well, those funds have been used for Terri's medical care and guardianship expenses and costs and fees over many, many years.

Those funds are virtually gone, and Mr. Schiavo is not going to inherit or gain one penny by the result of Terri's death.

BURY: And so, Michael, who is now -- and let's get the camera over to Michael if we can -- Michael, who is now paying for Terri's case?

SCHIAVO: Actually, right now, she's listed on the indigent list for hospice. They were taking care of her. They take very good care of her.

BURY: It's got to be very expensive.

SCHIAVO: She had -- I haven't received any bills from it, so I couldn't tell you how much it would cost.

BURY: Your wife's family and their supporters have been arguing in the most graphic terms that what you are going to allow happen on Friday, in their words, is in effect condemning your wife to a cruel death by starvation.

I'd like you to address that charge from them.

SCHIAVO: That's one of their soapboxes they've been on for a long time.

Terry will not be starved to death. Her nutrition and hydration will be taken away. This happens across this country every day.

Death through removing somebody's nutrition is very painless. That has been brought to the courts many of times. Doctors have come in and testified. It is a very painless procedure.

Terry can't -- she has no cortex left. She doesn't feel pain. She doesn't feel hunger.

So what's going to happen is slowly -- her potassium and her electrolytes will slowly diminish and she will drift off to a nice little sleep and eventually pass on to be with God.

BURY: Michael, as you know, her parents have said they are willing to take on the burden of caring for her. And we want to tackle that question when we come back in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BURY: Back now with Michael Schiavo with his lawyer, George Felos.

Michael, you're very well aware of Terri's parents' contention that, to some very limited degree, she is responsive and aware of her surroundings.

So now, I want to play, for just a second, what her father, Bob Schindler, said on this program to Ted Koppel in October of 2003.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCHINDLER: We have yea votes that would outnumber the nay votes by at least three to one.

Essentially we have close to 15 doctors that are on record with the courts stating Terry is not in a consistent vegetative state.

So we're not just out there on a lark.

We have bona fide information from a professional neurologist that Terry can recover.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURY: Michael, you heard from her father that they believe she can recover. We've also heard that she responds to her mother and responds to objects with her eyes.

What have you seen in the last 15 years?

SCHIAVO: Terry does not respond to anybody. She makes noises. She moans. She's been doing the same things for the past 15 years.

And they talk about their bona fide doctors. They have a list of doctors that signed affidavits from looking at a picture of Terry. That's where they get their information from, by looking at a picture.

And then they sign an affidavit swearing that she's not in a vegetative stage.

I'll tell you. That's a doctor you really want; they can look at a picture and make a diagnosis.

BURY: The parents also argue that you have moved on with your life, that you now have children that you're with, another woman, and that you could, essentially, divorce Terri and relinquish guardianship to them. Why don't you do that?

SCHIAVO: If I moved on with my life -- and I moved on with a portion of it -- but I still have a big commitment to Terri. I made her a promise.

And another reason why I won't give Terri back is that Mr. Schindler testified in court, at the 2000 trial, that he would -- to keep Terri alive he would cut her arms and legs off and put her on a ventilator just to keep her alive.

So why would I give her to a man that would do that to you?

BURY: As I understand it, some people have actually offered rewards. In fact, just in the last week or so, I read that someone was willing to pay you $1 million to give up your guardianship to the parents.

SCHIAVO: Yes, there was an offer. And there was an offer two weeks before that by an attorney in Boca Raton that offered me $10 million.

It's not about the money. This is about Terri. It's not about the Schindlers, it's not about the legislators, it's not about me, it's about what Terri Schiavo wanted.

BURY: I understand that that's your feeling about what your wife wanted, but knowing that you believe she is in a vegetative state and knowing that her mother and father have said they're willing to pick up the burden and carry on the cost, what is the harm to you if you agree to their wishes and relinquish guardianship to them?

SCHIAVO: Basically what I just said. Her father stated in court he would cut her arms and legs off. I'm not going to turn over Terri to a person that would do that to you.

FELOS: Chris, the fact is that Terri Schiavo is not a piece of property, not a suitcase that one person can give to another. She's an individual that has constitutional rights that have been adjudicated.

It's a constitutional right to say, "I don't want medical treatment" and the state can't force you to have it.

She may be in a vegetative state, but her dignity requires that we honor her rights and that's what this case is about now. Everyone's constitutional rights are at stake.

Jeb Bush in Florida is determined to become the George Wallace of his generation, standing on the courthouse steps saying, "We're not going to obey a court order that carries out a patient's constitutional rights."

And the thing is is that, if Mrs. Schiavo's rights are frustrated here, if the court order giving her the right to refuse medical treatment is frustrated and overturned by the governor or the legislature or the Congress, it could happen to you. It could happen in any case.

If any judicial decision is unpopular, it can be subject to being overturned by popular clamor. That's not what this country is about. That's not what individual liberty is about.

BURY: I understand fully the legal question here, Michael.

But let ask you in simply human terms. Can you understand the parents' contention, the bond that they have with their daughter, and their reluctance to let her go? Do you understand that?

SCHIAVO: You know, I have children and, you know, I couldn't even fathom what it would be like to lose a child. But you know, it's been 15 years.

They know the condition Terri is in. They were there in the beginning. They heard the doctors. They know that Terri's in a persistent vegetative state. They testified to that at the original trial.

Fifteen years -- you've got to come to grips with it sometime.

BURY: In that 15 years, what has been the most difficult aspect for you, personally?

SCHIAVO: In the 15 years? This happening to my wife.

Just because it's happened to Terri doesn't mean I don't still love her. She was a part of my life. She'll always be a part of my life.

And to sit here and be called a murderer and an adulterer by people that don't know me, and a governor stepping into my personal, private life, who doesn't know me either? And using his personal gain to win votes, just like the legislators are doing right now, pandering to the religious right, to the people up there, the anti-abortion people, standing outside of Tallahassee.

What kind of government is this? This is a human being. This is not right, and I'm telling everybody you better call you congressman, because they're going to run your life.

And I just want to say one more thing: Out of all these lawmakers, be it the Florida Senate, Florida House, the U.S. Congress, Gov. Bush, President Bush -- I want to know who will come down and take Terri's place. Who wants to do that?

BURY: Michael, I can imagine many people watching this tonight and looking at you and struggling with your dilemma and wondering, if they were in a similar position, what they might do.

Based on your own experience over this past 15 years, what advice do you give to families who might have to cope with this situation one day?

SCHIAVO: Make a living will. Talk about it. Death is going to happen to everybody. Write it down.

Even if you write it on a piece of paper at home and have your family witness it, you need to write it down.

BURY: Michael Schiavo, George Felos, thank you very much for joining us tonight.

And I'll be back in a moment.

[True Republican Patriot]

I'll believe the Priest!!! The definition of Contrary also comes to mind.

[Pajamajan]

This is such madness. It is obvious there is a problem here. I wish I had time to send my post out to the people you mentioned, and everyone else, I can't belive all the distortions in this case.

[wisconsinconservative]

"I Starved My Wife
To Death" Web Store!

On Friday, March 18, 2005 the state of Florida will begin to starve Terri Schiavo to death. Since Michael claims there is no money left for him to inherit we would like to suggest he start his own internet web store! Michael, just think of all your fabulous money making possibilities ... and all you had to do is starve your wife to death while having children with some other hot chick on the side.
  

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To Death" T-Shirt!
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BACK GLENN BECK.COM

[Pajamajan]

BUMP

[Deo volente]

A person who refuses to accept or speak the truth is "contrary", with the accent often on the 2nd syllable.

For example: "She's con-TRAIR-ee"

"Con-TRAIR-ee Mary"

At least her screen name is more stylish than "ordinary troll"

[nicmarlo]

lol!

[wisconsinconservative]

And then there is this from the recent court rulings:

The judge did grant the Schindlers some victories Monday. Terri Schiavo can receive Communion as part of the Catholic rite of Extreme Unction through her feeding tube before it is removed, and, if doctors michael allow it, a priest can put a drop of wine and a particle of Communion wafer on her tongue when death draws near, the judge ruled Monday.

[Woliff]

House Bill Helping Terri Schiavo Has Hearing Wednesday, Senate Next

by Steven Ertelt LifeNews.com Editor March 16, 2005

Washington, DC (LifeNews.com) -- As the days tick away before a Friday afternoon deadline by which Terri Schiavo's estranged husband can remove her feeding tube and start her week-long starvation death, members of the U.S. House will hold a hearing on a bill that could help Terri and her parents.

"We're fighting a clock," said Sen. Mel Martinez told the Washington Times.

He and Rep. Dave Weldon, both Florida Republicans, introduced legislation last week that would allow Terri's parents Bob and Mary Schindler to take their case out of the Florida court system, which has ruled in favor of starving Terri, and move it to federal courts.

The change of venue could help the Schindlers get a more favorable ruling and a new could could also issue an emergency stay if it has time to do so before Terri dies.

The Congressional bill would allow the Schindlers, and family of any similarly disabled patient, to use a habeas corpus review normally reserved for those on death row.

A patient's family must be in disagreement and there must be no advance directive spelling out the type of medical care a patient wishes prior to their incapacitation. Both apply in Terri's case.

Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, a Tennessee Republican, told the Times he wants to move the bill "as quickly as we can."

"She is clearly alive today. Looking at the facts, I would think that the Senate should speak if there is not some action at the state level," Frist told The Hill newspaper.

He plans to bring the bill to the floor of the Senate this week for a vote without having it go through a Senate committee.

Meanwhile, House Judiciary Committee Chairman Jim Sensenbrenner, of Wisconsin, has scheduled a hearing for Weldon's bill for Wednesday. It already has 115 co-sponsors.

A spokesman for Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada told the Times he hasn't taken a position on the bill yet but said it should first go through a Senate committee.

The bill could run into another problem. The Senate this week is considering the budget resolution and it would require a unanimous consent agreement to bring up Terri's bill.

If Senate Democrats prevent the bill from being brought up, the earliest the Senate could vote on the legislation would be late Friday night, hours after Terri's feeding tube is slated to be removed.

Both Michael Schiavo and Terri's brother Bobby Schindler have been in Washington this week to lobby on the legislation.

President Bush would likely sign such legislation.

ACTION: Contact any Representative or any Senator. You can also reach any member of Congress by calling 202-224-3121.

[Saundra Duffy]

Same old crap. Full of lies and the host lets them get away with it. Disgusting! The fact that Terri's rehab money was blown away on paying felos is never discussed.

[ContraryMary]

See post #247. Terri is not being denied Communion.

[It's me]

Michael Schiavo is truly evil. I had no idea that anyone could be so evil and so open about it.
I have never expierenced anything like that when I was a nurse!

[Halls]

No kidding, it seems like this man doesn't believe what he believes, doesn't know what he knows, doesn't understand what he understands. What an idiot!

[Zechariah_8_13]

thought provoking, at the very least, seeing as Michael Schaivo has a track record: starved his mom, starved his dad, starved Terri. What's to stop him at three victims?

I know that, if he has his way, this will make 3 ppl starved to death at the behest of Michael Shiavo.

I have to wonder-- why does a man like that choose the nursing profession? Is it the power? Clearly he's done all he can to prevent Terri from having anything positive in her life.

I'm reminded of the serial killer nurses in the news over the past few years, and shudder to think about it.

[Zechariah_8_13]

So add all the rotten stuff he's done to 10 - 20 years, and he's in the slammer a long time. Hope Greer and Felos are his room mates.

If what we suspect is true, they will be roommates.

However, it won't be anywhere as pleasant as a jail, and it will be for a lot longer than 20 yrs.

[nicmarlo]

Michael Schiavo is truly evil.

Yes, he is.

[bonfire]

If I were Terri's father.............

[nicmarlo]

I have to wonder-- why does a man like that choose the nursing profession? Is it the power? Clearly he's done all he can to prevent Terri from having anything positive in her life.

I have my private thoughts as to why he chose to enter the medical field, after Terri was disabled. BTW, he knew CPR before Terri "collapsed" but he did not perform CPR on Terri. Gee, why would he withhold medical treatment from Terri, even then?

[nicmarlo]

if I were his neighbor! : )

[bonfire]

This case makes me physically ill.

btw, Glenn Beck has really been on this the last few days.

[Orlando]

Didn't he(MS) still had on his work uniform on still when Bobby & Fire Medics arrived ?