Posted on 03/15/2005 7:35:42 PM PST by nickcarraway
Husband at the Heart of the 'Right to Die' Case Speaks to Chris Bury
Mar. 15, 2005 - Michael Schiavo won a series of lengthy court battles for the right to take his severely-disabled wife Terri off life support, but now faces a new challenge from Florida lawmakers who are seeking to pass a bill that would stop him from doing so.
Terri Schiavo collapsed in 1990 and suffered severe brain damage. She has been kept alive by a feeding tube ever since and has been unable to speak or care for herself. Her parents have insisted she is not in a persistent vegetative state, as doctors appointed by the court have concluded. They also believe she would not have wanted to be allowed to die.
While Michael Schiavo has only rarely spoken to the press, he gave an interview to ABC News' Chris Bury as the bill moves through the state legislature and the day for removing his wife's feeding tube approaches.
The following is a transcript of their conversation.
BURY: Joining us now from Dunedin, Fla., Michael Schiavo and his lawyer George Felos.
Michael, you've had very little to say outside of what's been filed in the legal briefs over the last year or so. Why have you decided to come out tonight and have something to say?
SCHIAVO: The reason why I've been keeping private for the longest time ever here, I've always wanted to protect my wife's privacy. I don't like -- I didn't want to put her picture all over the news. I just wanted to keep her private.
And today, and what's going on in the legislation, is really the reason why I'm starting to speak out, because it's outrageous.
BURY: When you say the legislation, I assume what you're talking about is the bill back now in the Florida legislature, which actually passed a committee in the legislature today and could be on Gov. Bush's desk by Friday, which is the same day that Terri's feeding tubes are to be removed. Is that right?
SCHIAVO: That's correct.
You know, it's really uncomprehensible to think that a private family matter that has gone through the judiciary system for the past seven years -- I mean, we're talking all the way up to the United States Supreme Court -- and for a governor to come into this without any education on the subject and push his personal views into this and have his Republican legislation pass laws so that this doesn't happen.
He's basically jumping right over the state court's decision. We might as well not have any state courts.
BURY: Just, Michael, so we can all understand the legislation -- as I understand it, this would require that before the feeding tubes could be removed from someone in a vegetative state, they would have had to have left written instructions to the effect that that was OK with that. Is that correct?
SCHIAVO: That's what they're trying to pass now, yes.
BURY: And let me ask your lawyer, George Felos: How problematic is this legislation for you?
FELOS: Chris, this is the second time this has happened.
As everyone knows, in October 2003 the governor sent armed men to Terri's death bed, took her to a hospital and had surgery performed on her against her will.
The Florida Supreme Court said that was unconstitutional, and it also said there is absolutely nothing the Florida legislature can pass that can undo the result in Terri Schiavo's case. Yet, in response to political pressure, the legislature is poised to pass another unconstitutional bill.
And not only that, it's not just Floridians' rights that are at stake, but everyone in the country. There is a bill in the United States Congress, and this bill in the United States Congress would virtually let any family member bring a federal court habeas corpus proceeding, which would tie up a case like that for years in federal court, which would make it virtually impossible for anyone to remove artificial life support.
And I want to mention, too, for everyone listening out there, this bill, filed in federal court, does not pertain just to vegetative patients. It doesn't pertain just to removal of feeding tubes. It pertains to removal or refusal of any type of medical treatment.
BURY: Just for the sake of argument, if this Florida bill moves through the legislature and Governor Bush signs it as early as Friday, does that move the whole thing back into the courts?
SCHIAVO: Well, we'll have to see what, in fact, passes on Friday.
It may very well delay implementation of Terri's rights. We certainly hope that it will not. But it is beyond any doubt that the Florida Supreme Court will once again declare such a law unconstitutional.
BURY: Michael, did Terri, your wife, leave any kind of written instructions about her wishes?
SCHIAVO: She didn't leave any written instructions. She has verbally expressed her wishes to me and other people.
BURY: She had verbally expressed them in what context exactly?
SCHIAVO: Through watching some TV program, a conversation that happened regarding her uncle that was very ill.
BURY: And how long ago was that?
SCHIAVO: Oh, we're talking -- it's now been 15 years. We're talking a couple of year, three years before this happened to Terri.
BURY: So there's no kind of written record at all. It's basically your recollection and those of other family members.
SCHIAVO: Yes, it is.
FELOS: But, Chris…
BURY: Go ahead, George.
FELOS: You have to remember that statistics show that something around 20 to 30 percent of adult Americans have written living wills. And if you're going to try to restrict families and patients from making decisions to stop artificial life support because patient declarations were oral, then the vast majority of Americans are going to be prevented from making these types of decisions.
SCHIAVO: People make these comments all the time. They talk about this with their loved ones every day. People's feedings -- tube feedings -- are stopped across this country every day.
If my wife wasn't the celeb, as everybody is calling her now, there would be no discussion in the legislation right now.
My other -- are they going to start pushing legislation for removing ventilators? Are they going to start forcing people to take chemo against their wishes?
What they're doing is, they're making the decisions for us. That's what this country is coming down to. They're going to make the decisions for us.
BURY: In this…
SCHIAVO: Big Brother is going to do that.
BURY: Michael, in the heated rhetoric that's swirling around this case and has been for a number of years now -- all kinds of charges have been flying back and forth.
First of all, do you stand to benefit financially in any way from your wife's death?
SCHIAVO: There is no money. I will receive not a penny.
BURY: You did receive something of a malpractice settlement north of $1 million at one point, is that correct?
SCHIAVO: Yes.
FELOS: Well, no.
BURY: And what happened to that?
FELOS: Michael didn't receive those funds. Those were received in Terri's guardianship and it was a bank who was her guardian of the property that administered those funds.
BURY: But the question remains: What happened to those funds?
FELOS: Well, those funds have been used for Terri's medical care and guardianship expenses and costs and fees over many, many years.
Those funds are virtually gone, and Mr. Schiavo is not going to inherit or gain one penny by the result of Terri's death.
BURY: And so, Michael, who is now -- and let's get the camera over to Michael if we can -- Michael, who is now paying for Terri's case?
SCHIAVO: Actually, right now, she's listed on the indigent list for hospice. They were taking care of her. They take very good care of her.
BURY: It's got to be very expensive.
SCHIAVO: She had -- I haven't received any bills from it, so I couldn't tell you how much it would cost.
BURY: Your wife's family and their supporters have been arguing in the most graphic terms that what you are going to allow happen on Friday, in their words, is in effect condemning your wife to a cruel death by starvation.
I'd like you to address that charge from them.
SCHIAVO: That's one of their soapboxes they've been on for a long time.
Terry will not be starved to death. Her nutrition and hydration will be taken away. This happens across this country every day.
Death through removing somebody's nutrition is very painless. That has been brought to the courts many of times. Doctors have come in and testified. It is a very painless procedure.
Terry can't -- she has no cortex left. She doesn't feel pain. She doesn't feel hunger.
So what's going to happen is slowly -- her potassium and her electrolytes will slowly diminish and she will drift off to a nice little sleep and eventually pass on to be with God.
BURY: Michael, as you know, her parents have said they are willing to take on the burden of caring for her. And we want to tackle that question when we come back in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURY: Back now with Michael Schiavo with his lawyer, George Felos.
Michael, you're very well aware of Terri's parents' contention that, to some very limited degree, she is responsive and aware of her surroundings.
So now, I want to play, for just a second, what her father, Bob Schindler, said on this program to Ted Koppel in October of 2003.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCHINDLER: We have yea votes that would outnumber the nay votes by at least three to one.
Essentially we have close to 15 doctors that are on record with the courts stating Terry is not in a consistent vegetative state.
So we're not just out there on a lark.
We have bona fide information from a professional neurologist that Terry can recover.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURY: Michael, you heard from her father that they believe she can recover. We've also heard that she responds to her mother and responds to objects with her eyes.
What have you seen in the last 15 years?
SCHIAVO: Terry does not respond to anybody. She makes noises. She moans. She's been doing the same things for the past 15 years.
And they talk about their bona fide doctors. They have a list of doctors that signed affidavits from looking at a picture of Terry. That's where they get their information from, by looking at a picture.
And then they sign an affidavit swearing that she's not in a vegetative stage.
I'll tell you. That's a doctor you really want; they can look at a picture and make a diagnosis.
BURY: The parents also argue that you have moved on with your life, that you now have children that you're with, another woman, and that you could, essentially, divorce Terri and relinquish guardianship to them. Why don't you do that?
SCHIAVO: If I moved on with my life -- and I moved on with a portion of it -- but I still have a big commitment to Terri. I made her a promise.
And another reason why I won't give Terri back is that Mr. Schindler testified in court, at the 2000 trial, that he would -- to keep Terri alive he would cut her arms and legs off and put her on a ventilator just to keep her alive.
So why would I give her to a man that would do that to you?
BURY: As I understand it, some people have actually offered rewards. In fact, just in the last week or so, I read that someone was willing to pay you $1 million to give up your guardianship to the parents.
SCHIAVO: Yes, there was an offer. And there was an offer two weeks before that by an attorney in Boca Raton that offered me $10 million.
It's not about the money. This is about Terri. It's not about the Schindlers, it's not about the legislators, it's not about me, it's about what Terri Schiavo wanted.
BURY: I understand that that's your feeling about what your wife wanted, but knowing that you believe she is in a vegetative state and knowing that her mother and father have said they're willing to pick up the burden and carry on the cost, what is the harm to you if you agree to their wishes and relinquish guardianship to them?
SCHIAVO: Basically what I just said. Her father stated in court he would cut her arms and legs off. I'm not going to turn over Terri to a person that would do that to you.
FELOS: Chris, the fact is that Terri Schiavo is not a piece of property, not a suitcase that one person can give to another. She's an individual that has constitutional rights that have been adjudicated.
It's a constitutional right to say, "I don't want medical treatment" and the state can't force you to have it.
She may be in a vegetative state, but her dignity requires that we honor her rights and that's what this case is about now. Everyone's constitutional rights are at stake.
Jeb Bush in Florida is determined to become the George Wallace of his generation, standing on the courthouse steps saying, "We're not going to obey a court order that carries out a patient's constitutional rights."
And the thing is is that, if Mrs. Schiavo's rights are frustrated here, if the court order giving her the right to refuse medical treatment is frustrated and overturned by the governor or the legislature or the Congress, it could happen to you. It could happen in any case.
If any judicial decision is unpopular, it can be subject to being overturned by popular clamor. That's not what this country is about. That's not what individual liberty is about.
BURY: I understand fully the legal question here, Michael.
But let ask you in simply human terms. Can you understand the parents' contention, the bond that they have with their daughter, and their reluctance to let her go? Do you understand that?
SCHIAVO: You know, I have children and, you know, I couldn't even fathom what it would be like to lose a child. But you know, it's been 15 years.
They know the condition Terri is in. They were there in the beginning. They heard the doctors. They know that Terri's in a persistent vegetative state. They testified to that at the original trial.
Fifteen years -- you've got to come to grips with it sometime.
BURY: In that 15 years, what has been the most difficult aspect for you, personally?
SCHIAVO: In the 15 years? This happening to my wife.
Just because it's happened to Terri doesn't mean I don't still love her. She was a part of my life. She'll always be a part of my life.
And to sit here and be called a murderer and an adulterer by people that don't know me, and a governor stepping into my personal, private life, who doesn't know me either? And using his personal gain to win votes, just like the legislators are doing right now, pandering to the religious right, to the people up there, the anti-abortion people, standing outside of Tallahassee.
What kind of government is this? This is a human being. This is not right, and I'm telling everybody you better call you congressman, because they're going to run your life.
And I just want to say one more thing: Out of all these lawmakers, be it the Florida Senate, Florida House, the U.S. Congress, Gov. Bush, President Bush -- I want to know who will come down and take Terri's place. Who wants to do that?
BURY: Michael, I can imagine many people watching this tonight and looking at you and struggling with your dilemma and wondering, if they were in a similar position, what they might do.
Based on your own experience over this past 15 years, what advice do you give to families who might have to cope with this situation one day?
SCHIAVO: Make a living will. Talk about it. Death is going to happen to everybody. Write it down.
Even if you write it on a piece of paper at home and have your family witness it, you need to write it down.
BURY: Michael Schiavo, George Felos, thank you very much for joining us tonight.
And I'll be back in a moment.
A lot of things are odd. It's as if Michael owns her. He's her guardian and has complete control, but it seems he should not be allowed to treat her so badly.
Judge Greer and Michael's lawyer, George Felos, are both pro-euthansia; in fact, George Felos is a pro-euthanasia activists. I believe that they want Terri to be a precedent to make euthansia legal.
Here's some history, a bit of it might be a repeat of what I already said:
When they attempted to starve Terri to death before, and Terri's sibblings tried to have her fed orally, Florida's Judge Greer said:
"I don't want anyone trying to feed that girl.
The law of the case is that she is going to die."
So, you see the feeding tube is just an excuse to MURDER Terri. She can swallow soft foods and liquids, and could swallow even better with THERAPY (Michael won't allow THERAPY).
Click and read:
POLICE REPORT: http://www.theempirejournal.com/SPPD_Police_Report_022590.pdf
PATTERN OF DOMESTIC ABUST: http://www.theempirejournal.com/021505_pattern_of_domestic_abuse.htm
Michael Schiavo is a sadist who euthanized Terri's two cats, and far worse, admitted on the Larry King show that he had his parents starved to death when they were sick with cancer, etc., and abused Terri before the collapse, and continues to abuse her.
He won't allow her to have therapy to talk (she can say a few words), he won't allow her to have therapy to swallow better (she CAN swallow soft foods), he turns her family's pictures around in her room, won't allow her to go outside for some fresh air, won't allow sunlight in her room, won't allow her see the cute little dogs that are brought around to cheer patients, won't allow her teeth to be brushed, etc.
Michael Schiavo, Terri's estranged husband, melted down her wedding ring in order to make jewelry for himself.
He killed her beloved cats, even after Terri's parents offered to take care of them.
YEP. Absolutely true!
Or he's afraid that she might recover.
Either way, they don't seem to be the actions of a loving husband.
How did whe come to be in the care of a doctor that in some manner made him or his insurance company liable for her condition?
Was she being treated for a condition prior to her collapse and this treatment was determined to be the cause of her collapse?
Or did she collapse and go to the hospitale where her condition was something short of braindamage/PVS and the doctors were negligent in her care after the collapse.
Sorry for not knowing the details.
It's not a minority opinion. As I said, it's THE LAW. He's breaking LAWS with Greer's help. He is REQUIRED to file and follow guardianship plans, laws. There is a CRIMINAL LAW against the withholding of food and water of the disabled in the CRIMINAL STATUTES. It's not "opinion."
Actually it has been written in many places that Dr. Gambone, who was Terri's attending physician, testified on the stand the he admitted Terri to the hospice "because Michael TOLD him to do so". So it seems like Mikey was calling the shots, not the doctors.
Now, being a nurse, this is very hard for me to believe. A real nurse, would care for Terri in the most basic of ways, which includes brushing her teeth.
Are you really saying that he will not allow her teeth to be brushed? Where did you hear this? Who can stop a nurse form brushing a patient's teeth?
I believe that Michael is evil and he is very wrong in wielding this power over Terri, but the nurses certainly bear some of the responsibility if her basic care is denied!
Terri has lots of support. Why is he not being prosecuted? Either in a criminal or civil case?
Terri Schiavo: March 15, 2005
Former Nurse Reveals Terri Schiavo's Capabilities
Carla Sauer Iyer, a nurse who cared for Terri Schiavo from April 1995 to July 1996 at Palm Garden of Largo Convalescent Center was recently interviewed by David Allen. Although we’ve posted several articles in the past based on her affidavits, she revealed a few additional details in the interview that have not been widely reported.
During the period in which she daily cared for Terri there was no publicity. “Just Michael [Terri's husband] trying to accelerate her death,” she said. Iyer explained that she would often sneak Terri’s parents, the Schindlers, into see her and that Michael refused to allow therapy of any kind. In fact, he was physically intimidating and would very loudly command the nurses “this is my order and you're going to follow it.”
“We were very intimidated … the whole place,” Iyer revealed, adding that some nurses had a restraining order against Michael Schiavo because his “behavior was so bad.”
When Terri had a urinary or upper respiratory tract infection Michael was visibly excited and would visit more often, asking “is she dead yet?” According to Iyer, at one point Michael exclaimed, “When is that b**** going to die?”
After Michael’s visits, Iyer stated that Terri, at times, became symptomatic for hypoglycemia (low blood sugar). Iyer said she found an unexplainable bottle of fast acting insulin concealed in Terri’s wastebasket that she speculates could have been used to induce the condition. She filed a police report but heard nothing further regarding the incident. Subsequently she received death threats she believes were related to notifying the authorities and was later released from her position as a caregiver because of her actions in support of Terri.
The nurses, including Iyer, interacted with Terri and daily witnessed her respond, laugh, and make requests. “We had her at the front of the nurse’s station… everyone loved Terri,” Iyer said.
When asked about the accuracy of the videos available on the internet Iyer said they were realistic but failed to capture Terri’s personality and, if anything, did not represent the extent of Terri’s ability to respond and communicate.
Iyer witnessed Terri consuming pudding and milkshakes every night and has previously testified that she fed Terri Jello. She witnessed Terri responding to her name, following others with her eyes and head and even moving her body with purpose.
In her prior affadavit, Iyer documented Terri's vocabulary:
Terri’s medical condition was systematically distorted and misrepresented. When I worked with her, she was alert and oriented. Terri spoke on a regular basis while in my presence, saying such things as "mommy," and "elp me." "Help me" was, in fact, one of her most frequent utterances. I heard her say it hundreds of times. Terri would try to say the word "pain" when she was in discomfort, but it came out more like "pay." She didn’t say the "n" sound very well. During her menses she would indicate her discomfort by saying "pay" and moving her arms toward her lower abdominal area. Other ways that she would indicate that she was in pain included pursing her lips, grimacing, thrashing in bed, curling her toes or moving her legs around. She would let you know when she had a bowel movement by flipping up the covers and pulling on her diaper.
Certainly this is a story that is not being carried by the mainstream press and has been supressed from judicial decisions. Iyer's testimony brings to light several facts including:
Terri Schiavo is not a "vegetable" and is not "brain dead". She recognizes and responds to others and makes attempts to verbally communicate.
Terri is not on life support but does receive food and water through a removable tube, which experts testify would not even be necessary if she were given therapy. This assisted feeding is a natural means of preserving life and not a medical act of life support or heroic measures.
Twelve medical experts and nurses who cared for her confirmed these facts. Video available through BlogsforTerri.com shows Terri responding and interacting with others. Health care workers have testified under oath that she expresses herself using words, such as "mommy" and "help me".
Terri is a person with disabilities who thinks and expresses her moods and desires. She is loved by her family and responds to their visits with smiles and laughter.
Terri Schiavo may be the victim of ongoing negligence and injustice. She has been denied therapy and rehabilitation by her guardian since 1991. Florida’s guardianship laws REQUIRE that these necessary services be given to her.
Terri Schiavo deserves to have medical tests and therapy. She does not deserve to be starved and dehydrated to death.
I've read it many times, but don't have a link. Maybe someone else here does. It's common knowledge. Perhaps you might like to check Terrisfight.org or do a search.
Speaking of nurses here's an excerpt from one of Terri's nurses and I do have the link for this:
Michael Schiavo:'When is that bitch going to die?'
In a stunning affidavit sworn , Carla Sauer Iyer, a registered nurse who was employed at Palm Garden of Largo Convalescent Center in Largo, Fla., from April 1995 to July 1996, while Terri Schiavo was a patient there, testified: "Throughout my time at Palm Gardens, " would say, 'When is she going to die? Has she died yet?' and " Iyer charged. "Other statements which I recall him making include, 'Can't anything be done to accelerate her death, won't she ever die?' When she wouldn't die, Michael [Schiavo] would be furious."
Conversely, Iyer said that when she would have to call Schiavo to inform him of a downturn in Terri's condition, Schiavo would be elated.
"Michael would be visibly excited, thrilled even, hoping that she would die," Iyer recalled. "He would blurt out, 'I'm going to be rich,' and would talk about all the things he would buy when Terri died, which included a new car, a new boat and going to Europe, among other things."
But don't take my word for it. Read the Affidavit for yourself at:
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/aff2-terri.pdf
Whew! Then I guess that makes for a perfectly fair and balanced interview. Glad you cleared that one up for me.
Title XLVI
Chapter 825 ABUSE, NEGLECT, AND EXPLOITATION OF ELDERLY PERSONS AND DISABLED ADULTS 825.101 Definitions. 825.102 Abuse, aggravated abuse, and neglect of an elderly person or disabled adult; penalties. 825.1025 Lewd or lascivious offenses committed upon or in the presence of an elderly person or disabled person. 825.103 Exploitation of an elderly person or disabled adult; penalties. 825.104 Knowledge of victim's age. 825.105 Good faith assistance. 825.106 Criminal actions involving elderly persons or disabled adults; speedy trial.Sixth Judicial Circuit Guardianship Information, Forms and Frequently Asked Questions
So add all the rotten stuff he's done to 10 - 20 years, and he's in the slammer a long time. Hope Greer and Felos are his room mates.
The laws are there, but are not being enforced.
Tell that to your average 'new order' Catholic, and they'll probably take offense. But you're right. Look at the old Canon Law Digest on this matter, and they devote practically a chapter, as it were, to laying down the law against cremation.
What impression was that?
Florida Officials Must Impanel Grand Jury
On Alleged Schiavo Abuse
© The Empire Journal
It’s time for a grand jury investigation to be convened in Florida’s Terri Schiavo case.Schiavogate---The Big Cover-upIn fact, it’s way past time.
Otherwise, someone may get away with murder.....
By June Maxam and Ginger Berlin
© The Empire Journal
"People may die during the course of abuse investigations and the investigation may become moot".Apparently that’s what Florida’s Sixth Circuit Court George Greer is hoping. Maybe even the judges in the 2nd District Court of Appeals at Lakeland have the same mindset.....
Worth repeating.
I posted that for the nurse you were talking to and PFKEY as to how frightening Schiavo is and he has total control. I included you and nicmarlo as a courtesy because of the info Iyer gives in the interview. :)
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