Posted on 03/14/2005 3:21:14 PM PST by Archon of the East
I am frustrated over the lack of action being taken on the part of our so-called conservative politicians, on behalf of Marine Lt. Ilario Pantano. The courageous Marine is facing the death penalty, if convicted of killing two Iraqi terrorists. If our elected officials are willing to send our young men and women into harm's way--they better be just as willing to protect them...We have to demand it!
Lt. Pantano is facing a court-martial and a possible date with the executioner. His crime?...He shot and killed two Iraqi terrorists. The two fled from a house where weapons and bomb-making materials were found. Pantano ordered the men to stop, they then turned and began walking toward him (many U.S. soldiers have been killed by suicide-bombers in just this manner). He shouted at them in Arabic, they continued to come towards him and he fired. Several months later, a disgruntled subordinate of Lt. Pantano's came forward with the bogus charges.
I can only imagine the daily horrors we would now be facing, if the American World War II veterans had faced such politically-correct scrutiny. We would all be goose-stepping right now. Well, not all of us--much of my family would be lampshades.
A few days ago, I phoned my own Congresswoman, to see what action she was planning to help Lt. Pantano return to a normal life. Certainly, the self-described "conservative" Rep. Thelma Drake (R-VA) who sits on the powerful House Armed Services Committee, would not allow Pantano to hang for simply doing his job! I voted for Drake because I believed her campaign promises to support the war effort and protect our troops...What a sucker I am!
I initially spoke with one of Drake's staffers (Claire Wulf). Ms. Wulf had no idea who Lt. Ilario Pantano was and was completely unaware of the case. After I filled her in on the situation, I was informed that Rep. Drake was very busy and that Congressional pardons are very difficult to secure. Ms. Wulf said: "Well, we get several requests for pardons and I can tell you--a Congressional pardon is quite rare."
I let Ms. Wulf know that it was even more "rare" for a soldier to be charged with murder, for killing the enemy!
I was eventually handed-off to another staffer (Tyler Brown) attached to Drake's Washington office. Mr. Brown was just as clueless as his local counterpart. Alas, my comments ended up in the vast abyss of Rep. Drake's voicemail. No one ever returned my messages. My so-called "conservative" Congresswoman is taking the same interest in the painful saga of Lt. Pantano which President Bush has taken...They simply don't care!
I know that Rep. Drake is not alone in her ignorance. I have yet to hear one Congressman or Senator speak out on behalf of the Marine Lt.
No wonder recruitment is down!
Again, you are wrong; Lt. Pantano is prior enlisted, and he was a sniper in Desert Storm. So he doesn't have the "I'm just a dumb second looie" defense available.
Most distressing news.
Indeed, your felony murder theory is just plain nutty. If you have any evidence Pantano actually has been charged with felony murder as distinct from deliberate murder, pleas provide the link.
"Felony stupid" is not a crime, but you knew that.
If you have any evidence Lt. Pantano has been charged with violating Art. 92, please provide the link.
I agree with you that Lt. Pantano showed poor judgment and poor leadership in combat. He should not again be put in command of troops in combat. If it can be shown that Lt. Pantano violated a direct order or a published standing order of his unit, he could be subject to court-martial for violating that order. Do you have any evidence Lt. Pantano violated an order? Gotta link? If not, if he violated principals of his training or SOP's, non-judicial punishment would be appropriate.
If you want to lecture on the law, take the LSAT and attend a good law school.
From what I've read, I agree. If this thing goes to trial, which I doubt, it looks like it will come down to who the jury believes, Lt. Pantano or the NCO who claims Lt. Pantano was not acting in self defense.
No congresscritter worth the name is going to interfere in a UCMJ action. Nor should they. The time for them to intervene is either before or after. If the facts and testimony are as I've seen them, Pantano's in good shape with the board. Watch & be prepared to act, but don't panic.
A reminder poohbah...Lt Pantano is NOT charged with "felony uncuffing prisoners" or reckless endangerment of his men. He is charged with premeditated murder of two enemy combatants out of uniform...the traditional method of handling spies and espionage agents.
Absent Lt. Pantano's illegal (and incredibly stupid) act, the chain of events collapses. Bottom line: Lt. Pantano was responsible for safeguarding those intelligence assets, and they wound up dead because he deliberately failed to do so.
"Felony stupid" is not a crime, but you knew that.
Actually, given that Lt. Pantano's seniors had special trust and confidence in his fidelity, patriotism, and ability, it is. I've known of officers who got court-martialed and convicted for "felony stupid" (losing classified material, et cetera).
If it can be shown that Lt. Pantano violated a direct order or a published standing order of his unit, he could be subject to court-martial for violating that order.
And court-martialed for the two deaths that proceeded directly from violating orders.
When (a) orders are disobeyed (and they were by Pantano's own statement) and people wind up dead because of same (which they did), the USMC doesn't content itself with a handslap for disobeying orders.
Do you have any evidence Lt. Pantano violated an order?
Marine Corps Order 1640.3F, "Procedures for the Transfer of Marine Corps Prisoners" comes to mind.
This stuff is drilled into your head at Quantico, and in boot camp. You do not allow a prisoner to be unsecured.
Actually, it isn't in this country, unless you're arguing that international law (the Geneva Convention) abrogates US sovereignty.
The reason he's charged with first-degree murder is that Pantano committed felonies (multiple) that caused the deaths.
On that, we agree.
As to the rest, you could not back up any of your assertions with evidence or supporting links. You are all hat and no cattle. Or should I say, all talk but no law.
Would there be any theoretical situation where military law or procedure can be deviated from?
The Article 32 investigation will be completed. The IO will formulate his recommendation(s) and the GCM authority will render his decision on a course of action.
We are not privy to all the facts. And neither is the press nor Momma Patano.
Bump!
I seriously doubt this case will get to a GCM. These kinds of cases usually settle.
If, as has been reported, the two prisoners were fleeing at the time Lt. Pantano shot them in the back, how does that support his theory of self-defense?
Please note that the definion of self-defense which I am most familiar with is that given in People (of Michigan) vs. Riddle, not the UCMJ's or any other jurisdictions'.
Seems to me he's being charged with murder which is definitely a Courts-Martial offense.
Maybe a little levity to answer your question...
Shooting enemy combatants in the back would be from the John F. Kerry code of military justice.
Wait. That's not funny.
Agree. My big concern here is with the troops being subjected to criminal charges for actions they take in a combat environment. To the best of my knowledge, nobody is denying that these were two terrorists(insurgents, for the PC types), yet this guy is still facing murder charges. It also pi$$es me off that so many armchair generals and lawyers want to hang this guy for killing two TERRORISTS.
I hope this guy walks.
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