Death by Medicine (Does modern medicine kill more than it cures?)

http://www.mercola.com/2003/nov/26/death_by_medicine.htm ^

[Humblebum]

By Gary Null PhD, Carolyn Dean MD ND, Martin Feldman MD, Debora Rasio MD, Dorothy Smith PhD

ABSTRACT

A definitive review and close reading of medical peer-review journals, and government health statistics shows that American medicine frequently causes more harm than good. The number of people having in-hospital, adverse drug reactions (ADR) to prescribed medicine is 2.2 million.1 Dr. Richard Besser, of the CDC, in 1995, said the number of unnecessary antibiotics prescribed annually for viral infections was 20 million. Dr. Besser, in 2003, now refers to tens of millions of unnecessary antibiotics.2, 2a

The number of unnecessary medical and surgical procedures performed annually is 7.5 million.3 The number of people exposed to unnecessary hospitalization annually is 8.9 million.4 The total number of iatrogenic deaths shown in the following table is 783,936. It is evident that the American medical system is the leading cause of death and injury in the United States. The 2001 heart disease annual death rate is 699,697; the annual cancer death rate, 553,251.5

long article, click the link to read

[Polybius]

Similarly, I recall a poll recently where 80% of doctors and nurses polled said they had seen or witnessed the ineptness or recklessness of others.

You know what? The other 20% were bald faced liars.

In what field of human endeavor has anyone NOT "witnessed the ineptness or recklessness of others"?

[calex59]

spent less time on the computer

Spent less time on the computer? This is heresey and you should be burned at the stake or at least taken to task for such a statement!

That said, we do lose patients that die because of infections contracted in hospitals but we save a lot more than we ever lose. Hospitals need to clean up their act a little because infections are growing and antibiotics becoming less effective , but we are a great nation and our health care facilities are wonderful.

I have had my life saved at least once by hospital care and I don't think I would have wanted to stay home and chant and burn incense to try to cure myself!

[Smartaleck]

"You know what? The other 20% were bald faced liars."

No, I can't say that I KNOW that.

[Polybius]

....we do lose patients that die because of infections contracted in hospitals but we save a lot more than we ever lose. Hospitals need to clean up their act a little because infections are growing and antibiotics becoming less effective

Since hospitals are the confined physical space where every serious infection across town ends up and those infections are treated with multiple antibiotics year after year after year, hospitals become like Navy warships where the cockroaches in the galley eat every pesticide known to Man as if the pesticides were potato chips.

It's a tough problem that requires the obsessive compulsiveness of Monk to keep under control.

Another, big threat is in the outpatient setting where some patients demand antibiotics for a every hack and cough and some doctors would rather spend 10 seconds writing an antibiotic prescription than 20 minutes arguing the fact that antibiotics do not affect the common cold.

[Polybius]

"You know what? The other 20% were bald faced liars."

No, I can't say that I KNOW that.

Well, I'm an M.D. and I do know that.

That's why God created Incident Report Forms. :-)

Any human being who claims he/she has gone through a career, any career, without ever committing any errors or carelessness or ever witnessing any errors or carelessness commited by others is lying.

To claim otherwise would be to claim perfection 24/7/365 which is beyond human capability.

I would never trust a medical worker who claims otherwise because such a person is either a B.S.'er or an individual who is unwilling to learn from his mistakes or the mistakes of others.

[Smartaleck]

"I would never trust a medical worker who claims otherwise because such a person is either a B.S.'er or an individual who is unwilling to learn from his mistakes or the mistakes of others."

Did you consider how the questionaire was worded? Sorry I don't have it in front of me, but that "might" make a difference?

---

Not to confuse the subject, but I'd like your opinion regarding tort reform. Several so called studies indicate that med cost have not gone up, at least not dramatically, as a result of mal-practice suits. If that isn't the cause then what in your opinion is? Thanks.

[rlmorel]

I agree with you %100. Errors occur, we are human.

[JusPasenThru]

They can take my Vioxx away when they peal my cold dead fingers off the bottle of pills....

[Wingy]

Do you really think that the total increase in life expectency can be explained by some expertise in trauma treatment? Granny, you have some strange ideas about life. As someone 6 weeks past bypass surgery, I can tell you that while you have never read about MY success story, you have neither read about the 30 other patients that I witnessed have successful outcomes from their treatment in the week that I was in the hospital.

But you evidently have some story about a patient that was poorly served by their doctor, so the whole profession is a bunch of pill-pushing-no goods that should be shunned, or at least ignored. Well, Granny, you do that, but you do it at your own peril. If I were you, I wouldn't try to pass that advice on to others. You could be sued.

[Polybius]

Did you consider how the questionaire was worded? Sorry I don't have it in front of me, but that "might" make a difference?

The quote I saw was "had seen or witnessed the ineptness or recklessness of others".

During the course of a medical career, you observe literally thousands of other medical providers. Human beings being what they are, there is no way that someone has not seen at least one individual being inept. It is inconceivable unless the individual is so totally inept himself that he or she can not recognize ineptness at all.

In your own line of work, think of all the individuals you have interacted with. Is there any possible way that you could have spent your entire working experience without seeing at least one inept person?

It's the same with medicine. If it involves humans, sooner or later you are going to see someone make a bonehead mistake.

***********************

Not to confuse the subject, but I'd like your opinion regarding tort reform. Several so called studies indicate that med cost have not gone up, at least not dramatically, as a result of mal-practice suits. If that isn't the cause then what in your opinion is? Thanks.

I can't give stats about monetary cost since I'm not a bean counter but it is my opinion the monetary costs to the patient is not affected.

Medical procedure costs are determine by a system of Relative Value Units (RVU)that give the relative worth of each medical procedure. Each procedure has a Current Procedural Terminology (CPT) number. Each geographic area has a Conversion Factor number (New York City charges more than the Mayberry, North Carolina region, etc.)

To arrive at a cost, you multiply the RVU of a CPT by the Conversion Factor and that is what is paid out by Medicare and the insurance companies. With each contract, you have to haggle over what the Conversion Factor will be. An M.D. can charge whatever he pleases but he won't get paid for it beyond that formula.

So, monetary costs are not affected.

What is affected is the human cost on the M.D. and what I will call the "Atlas Shrugged Factor".

Lawyers don't target your Family doctor. There is no Big Money in it. Lawyers target Big Money cases where they can get a million or so.

So..........Any baby not born perfect is blamed on the Obstetrician. Any residual brain abnormality is blamed on the brain surgeon. If you get out of that 80 MPH car wreck alive but crippled for life, it is the fault of the Trauma surgeon.

So, in cities or States where lawyers are out of control (two examples are Las Vegas and Philadelphia), these specialist face million dollar liabilities if every patient does not turn out perfect. Their malpractice insurance can run over $100,000 per year.

Guess what happened?

Atlas Shrugged.

The high risk specialists in those areas say "F@%^ It" and either retire, move out of the area or drop the high risk portions of their practice.

In Las Vegas, it got so bad that pregnant women needed to drive to Utah to find an OB and trauma surgeons abandoned the city.

It affects other places although not to that drastic degree.

In our own county, our single OB/GYN no longer practices OB because the malpractice risk is simply not worth it.

So, in our county, the problem is not that the cost of delivery by an OB/GYN is more. The RVU system determines the charge. In our county, the problem is that you cannot get the OB/GYN to deliver a baby at ANY cost.

And so it goes.

We had one of the finest surgeons I have ever known in this County. At 52, he got slapped with a frivolous lawsuit that sucked up a year of his life. Although he won the lawsuit, he also took the "Atlas Shrugged" route. Why risk everything he had ever worked for?

So, at 52, at the prime of his career, he quit medicine and devoted his time to real estate development. His wife, an anesthesiologist, still works part time but he wants her to quit medicine too because of the malpractice risk. The other day I talked to him and he told me about a patient that had died two hours prior to a scheduled surgery where his wife was to be the anesthesiologist. "If he had died 2 hours and 30 minutes later", he said to me, "some lawyer could have slapped a million dollar lawsuit on Mary. That is why I keep asking her to quit."

In my own specialty of radiology, mammography is the "Atlas Shrugged" area. It is high risk (10%-15% of cancers don't show on mammography), it is Politically Correct and regulated to death, lawyers and women expect perfection and the average malpractice case is for about $1 million.

Oh, by the way, it pays hardly nothing after expenses.

So, guess what?

In our geographic area, I am one of only three radiologists willing to still read them in a three county area. If I am ever slapped with a frivolous mammogram lawsuit in this County, I will drop mammography like hot potato.

That is the "cost" of the malpractice crisis.

[HuntsvilleTxVeteran]

Sure and the average age of death goes down all the time.
NOT

[freepatriot32]

Updated: 03/14/2005

Name: Nicole DeHuff

Birthday: January 6, 1975

Birth Place: Oklahoma

Date of death: February 16, 2005

Nicole, who played Teri Polo's sister in "Meet the Parents", died February 16th after two doctors misdiagnosed her pneumonia, recognizing it only after it became untreatable.

CREDITS:

CSI: Miami - Carrie Delgado - Wannabe (2004)

CSI: Miami - Carrie Delgado - Stalkerazzi (2004)

Monk - Vicki Salinas - Mr. Monk and the Paperboy (2004)

L.A. Dragnet - Claudia Hellman - The Magic Bullet (2003)

Without a Trace - Kathy Dobson - Underground Railroad

(2003)

The Court (2002) - Alexis Cameron

The Practice - Michelle Farrell - Dangerous Liaisons

(2001)

CSI - Tina Kolas - Alter Boys (2001)

See Arnold Run (2005) - Barbara

Suspect Zero (2004) - Katie Potter

Meet the Parents (2000) - Debbie Byrnes

[from occupied ga]

So what?

[rlmorel]

I second from occupied ga.

So what?

What are you trying to say? That those of us who disagree with the stupid premise of this post are wrong because people have died due to mismanagement by their health care providers? Especially one who is so young and attractive?

Do us all a favor please. If you are going to take part in a discussion, do it with some skill. You obviously took the time to find these cases and post the pictures, but you need some logic to back up your premise.

Your premise is that because people have died due to mismanagement or negligence by the medical community, then the assertion that health care in America causes more harm than good is true.

Do I understand your position correctly?

[freepatriot32]

see post number 11. i'd say killing up to 195,000 people a year through pure incompetence is doing more harm then good!The pic i posted was just to put a human face on the mind boggling statistics.These arent just numbers they are humans that will never walk the earth again because modern day medicical practice consists of shoving as many people through a revolving hospital door as possibles every day so they can get bonus money at the end of the year through their hmo and if its possible to prescribe them the flavor of the month prescription drug so they can get a second bonus from the drug companys why thats just icing on the cake

[Theo]

Several so called studies indicate that med cost have not gone up, at least not dramatically, as a result of mal-practice suits

Smartaleck -- tell me specifically why so many OB/GYNs are refusing to handle births. Money-grubbing lawyers (including John Edwards and his buddies).

Physicians go into the field to help people, and perhaps to make some money. Lawyers go into the field to make money and screw people over.

Okay, huge generalization. And I know exceptions. But the truth is that lawyers are destroying our country more than physicians.

Man, I have a big chip on my shoulder against lawyers. Because of lawyers, my wife is looking for another OB/GYN (her previous one stopped doing births because of malpractice insurance costs)....

Grr....

[Theo]

Do a bit of research, and you'll find that that "study" was severely flawed and the "findings" just plain wrong.

[from occupied ga]

I see. The actual number killed in all medical malpractice on an annual basis is more like 140,000, but still not a good number. Most of these are killed by wrong drugs or wrong doses of drugs in hospitals - not physician errors, but nursing errors (although physician errors exist - in fact I'll give you an example of one I heard about second hand.

A couple of years ago a young lady (mid 30s) walked into the ER in a major Baltimore hospital with a severe migrane. The ER physician, an intern, graduate of U of M med school, gave her the po dose for a narcotic iv. As she started to slip into a coma he realized his mistake and gave her naloxone and everything was OK. He left her thinking that she'd be ok, not realizing that the naloxone half life was less than the narcotic. After about an hour she went into a coma again, arrested and died in spite of have a code called. However that same ER treats many people daily for everything from gunshot to stabbings to automobile injuries to people who use it for their routine health care needs. In fact it's the level 1 adult trauma center for the Baltimore region. Would you close that ER because of one mistake? Would you let all of the trauma victims bleed out on their own? Sounds pretty silly to me.

Also using anectdotal evidence is an unworthy emotional trick used by crybaby bedwetting liberals and I'm sure that you won't want to associate yourself with that bunch.

[rlmorel]

Given the content of your reply, I would have to say you have already made up your mind about this, and when you see something that validates your opinion, then it is the gospel truth.

I asked the question: "Your premise is that because people have died due to mismanagement or negligence by the medical community, then the assertion that health care in America causes more harm than good is true."

You answered: "i'd say killing up to 195,000 people a year through pure incompetence is doing more harm then good!"

What you are doing is a simple straw-man argument. The premise of the original article is that modern medicine hurts more than it helps. Just in case you don't know what you did, when someone uses a straw man argument, they take the original argument, make a straw man (or dummy argument that is a caricature of the original argument) and demolish the dummy argument, thereby in their mind, winning the argument. In your case, you are using the "fact" (I use the scare quotes deliberately) that 190,000 people have died from negligent medical care as your scarecrow.

Let's say I just give that figure to you. 190,000 people dead from medical negligence is a terrible thing. But without knowing the other side of the equation, you cannot make that argument and win. You can simply speak from ignorance and think you have won.

If modern medicine saves 190,001 people, then you are wrong. Where is the other side of your equation?

I work in health care, and I am proud of what I do. I make a living, and feel that I provide quality care to people. Do I make mistakes? Nearly every day in some shape or form. A lot of people I work with feel the same way. Do we feel the pressure to make money, stay profitable and expand our services and buy new equipment to stay up to date and provide the best service we can? You bet we do.

We are under incredible pressure to stay profitable, because human labor costs more money than nearly everything else. That person who draws your blood? They are a human being who needs to make a living, so they need to be paid a decent wage. The same goes for the physical therapist as well as the Neurosurgeon.

There are people out there who want it all ways. They don't want to pay any money for healthcare, but they want the best care possible, performed by human beings with NO MARGIN FOR ERROR. Bucko, when humans are involved, there is no such thing as ERROR FREE. Period. Maybe YOU are perfect and don't make mistakes, or maybe mistakes in your job don't mean life or death.

But in my 20 years or so in Medicine, I have seen people make mistakes. I have seen people sobbing uncontrollably, in the knowledge that they hurt or might have hurt someone because of a mistake they made. It makes no difference if the mistake even resulted in any kind of complication.

You have no right, and no logical basis to make the statements you make. To portray health care providers as money grubbing machines just plain pisses me off. I know what I am talking about, I live it. If you can make the statements you did, in that never ending run-on sentence you call a post, then you are just drinking some kool-aid. Or maybe you have been hurt in a medical incident. In either case, neither makes you right.

[Smartaleck]

Thanks for the well thought out reply.

I'm not sure it adequately addresses the charge, made by some anyway, that mal-practice suits are not driving up medical cost? I can see where your point of view is probably BS to them. LOL