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To: NYer

"Those who have died and gone before us, hear our pleas and intercede on our behalf"

There is no scriptural basis for this statement. Hebrews 12:1 states that we are surrounded by a great company of witnesses but it does not say that they hear our pleas or intercede on our behalf. By making this statement you are adding to the word of God.

Heb 7:25
Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

He - Christ ever liveth to make intercessession for us.


"But it is always good to have some allies in Heaven."

We need only one "ally" - Jesus himself

1Tim 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

One mediator - not many. If you think you need "some allies" other than Christ you minimize his great sacrifice.


40 posted on 03/12/2005 10:29:25 AM PST by The Lumster
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To: The Lumster
One mediator - not many. If you think you need "some allies" other than Christ you minimize his great sacrifice.

One Mediator, many intercessors, who are intercessors by virtue of the Sacrifice of Christ.

If this is true that we need no "allies" among the saints (the Body of Believers), then our prayers for each other mean nothing, are to no avail, and are an insult to God. I could go only to Jesus and only pray for myself.

It is the VERY SACRIFICE of CHRIST that has conquered sin and death. If Christ conquered DEATH, both spiritual and physical death, then how could it be possible that the same spiritual abilities we had in life, namely the privilege of making intercession, could be lost by passing over into eternity?

Since all hinges on the Sacrifice of Jesus, how can it be minimized by using the spiritual ability of making intercession that God has given us, both in physical life and afterwards?

72 posted on 03/12/2005 1:35:26 PM PST by Lauren BaRecall (Let me go indulge myself with a bit of chocolate Haagen-Dazs Life Support.)
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To: The Lumster; NYer

Something I just thought of:

We are a "chosen race, a Royal Priesthood, a people set apart" (and that IS Biblical), and therefore, we have a share in Christ's work of salvation. This includes making intercession while on earth, and in heaven.


82 posted on 03/12/2005 2:00:08 PM PST by Lauren BaRecall (Let me go indulge myself with a bit of chocolate Haagen-Dazs Life Support.)
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To: The Lumster
Hebrews 12:1 states that we are surrounded by a great company of witnesses but it does not say that they hear our pleas or intercede on our behalf.

Neither does it say that they are deaf and uncaring. If they are with God, how could they be?

One mediator - not many. If you think you need "some allies" other than Christ you minimize his great sacrifice.

Tell it to Paul, who had this annoying habit of asking other people to pray for him. He evidently did not know how much this insulted Jesus, but we trust you'll set him straight.

Oh, and, btw, if you actually read the passage in 1 Tm 2 where it talks about the "one mediator" in context, you'll find that Paul is even there commanding his intercessory prayer heresy, right there in verses 1 and 2, where he commands prayer for "kings and all who are in high positions". Seems like he actually thinks that Christians interceding for each other and even for pagans before the throne of Christ, so that He can mediate those prayers to the Father, glorifies Jesus. However, I'm glad you've set us straight and explained just what an insult that practice really is to him.

88 posted on 03/12/2005 3:49:00 PM PST by Campion
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To: The Lumster

"One mediator - not many. If you think you need "some allies" other than Christ you minimize his great sacrifice."

You just summed up the crux of the matter between Prots and RC's.


99 posted on 03/12/2005 7:05:57 PM PST by bonfire
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