Schiavo's case lands in Congress

St Petersburg Tines Tampa Bay ^ | 3.11.05 | ANITA KUMAR, Times Staff Writer

[gopwinsin04]

With avenues to keep Terri Schiavo alive closing in the state of Florida, they were opening in the nation's capital Thursday . The tide turned decidedly in favor of the parents who want to prolong their brain-damaged daughters life.

Just a scant eight days before the court ordered deadline to remove her feeding tube, Republicans on Capitol Hill rallied around the case that has become a 'cause celebre' of conservative and religious groups.

Florida Sen. Mel Martinez and Rep. Dave Weldon's bill to require the incapacitated without living wills to be appointed attorneys before life support is terminated, introduced on Tuesday had 103 sponsors in the House and seven sponsors in the Senate.

Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, a surgeon, is trying to get it to the Senate floor without it being heard in committte. House Majority Leader Tom Delay is working to get the bill in front of the Judiciary committee by Wednesday.

It was unclear whether US Congressional Democrats would try and stop the bill. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid has said he prefers for it to be heard in committee.

Sam Brownback, a Kansas Republican, said he hopes for full Democratic support and has heard no direct oppositon.

George Felos, attorney for Michael Schiavo, sounded resigned to the fact that politics in the nations capital would delay the removal of Schiavo's feeding tube the way it did in 2003, when Florida's governor and legislature stepped in.

'It is certainly disheartening to see them falling all over themselves to pander to these groups,' Felos said. 'It's a massive campaign of fear and misinformation. It's a repeat of Terri's law'

The attorney for the Schiavo parents had the opposite view. 'We are very encouraged by what is happening in Congress right now, said David Gibbs.

'The family is profoundly grateful'

[morgan22]

How can one have enjoyed due process when another who wants her dead speaks for her. The husband stands to gain financially and would be able to marry his fiancee. He also may have an interest that she not recover to possibly remember how her injury occurred. I might also add the fact that he has used funds provided for Terri's care for the process of legally having her killed.
One other thought, the law that allows the tubes to be removed was passed many years after her accident(?). Isn't retroactive application of a law prohibited?

[AndyJackson]

Maybe it does, but if so, we should just abolish the states entirely.

Menken's Law when A injures B on behalf of X then A is a scoundral. B is Terri. I leave it to you to figure out who A and X are. When a state commits premeditated murder under color of law with full malice of forethought and plenty of public notice that it was proceding in an immoral fashion, it lost its rights.

[jwpjr]

re: either method is euthanasia which is illegal and immoral.

Oh, I couldn't agree more! I am just appalled that we would add insult to injury by choosing a method of euthanasia that would patently unacceptable in the case of even most depraved mass murderer, but seems perfectly OK for a beautiful young lady whose only crime was being married to a man who had so little regard for his marriage vows and the sanctity of the the life of one of God's children.

[unlearner]

Prayer is a petition to God. Intercession is a prayer on behalf of someone else.

I challenge you to find one example in the Bible, just one, of a dead person who interceded for someone in prayer.

However, there is a prohibition in the Bible from communicating with the dead:

Isaiah 8:19-20 And when they shall say unto you, "Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter": should not a people seek unto their God? (Or should they seek) for the living to the dead? To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Further, the description you gave of St. Jude applies to Jesus and the Holy Spirit:

Heb.7:25 - Wherefore He (Jesus) is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by Him, seeing He ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Romans 8:26-27 - Likewise the Spirit also helps our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. And He Who searches the hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because He makes intercession for the saints (all believers) according to the will of God.

Even Jesus and the Holy Spirit are interceding because of the weakness and inadequacy of our prayer to the Father, not because we ask Jesus and the Holy Spirit to intercede. They do so whether we ask or not.

1 Peter 1:17 - And if ye call on the Father, Who without respect of persons judges according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear.

John 16:23-27 - And in that day you will ask Me nothing. Truly, truly, I say to you, Whatever you shall ask the Father in My name, He will give it (to) you. Hitherto have you asked nothing in My name: ask, and you shall receive, that your joy may be full. These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time comes, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father. At that day you shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you: For the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved Me, and have believed that I came out from God. (Note that all of the times "you" is used, it is plural in the original.)

Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ (Jude 1), cannot do the job of Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, is no more righteous than any other believer.

Don't you understand that whoever comes to God must do so in perfect righteousness? This is only possible because, by the substitutionary death of Jesus Christ, God sees believers as righteous - just as righteous as Jesus.

This is what it means to pray in Jesus name. Believers are able to do this by agreeing together in prayer, praying according the will of God, and listening to the Holy Spirit (Who resides in all believers).

When believers pray according to the way Jesus taught us to pray, God will answer that prayer. There is no need to improve on this perfect prayer. To add anything else (such as praying to dead saints) only diminishes it.

[churchillbuff]

it will be declared unconstitutional"""

On what grounds? Since the federal constitution -- 5th amendment - - guarantees that life won't be taken without "due process", and since the 14th amendment applies the 5th amendment to the states - and also empowers congress to enforce the 5th amendment through statute, -- how could it be "unconstitutional" for a law to provide for federal court appeal of medical "'mercy' death sentences"?

[gopwinsin04]

Perhaps not, unless Dirty Harry wants that blood on his hands.

[gopwinsin04]

Amen, this will stain Reid for life if he drags his feet here.

[lbt4000]

This shoud be a big lesson to everyone, no matter what side of it you are on. MAKE A LIVING WILL!

[Dog Gone]

If the state law violates the constitution, you are advocating that the constitution is completely unimportant and should be abolished. Is that what you are saying?

Just the opposite. If a state violates your US constitutional rights, you have the right to challenge that law in court.

[Dog Gone]

One other thought, the law that allows the tubes to be removed was passed many years after her accident(?). Isn't retroactive application of a law prohibited?

In most cases, yes. But that's not going to work in this case, because the law applies to someone's current condition. The timing of the cause of the condition is irrelevant.

An analogy would be a new speed limit that goes into effect at midnight. You can't argue that since you started driving at 70 mph at 11:45 pm, the new law doesn't apply to you.

[Aliska]

However, there is a prohibition in the Bible from communicating with the dead:

The saints aren't dead according to the Christian faith. Certainly not St. Jude, one of the original apostles, the saint of impossible causes. I hope he is interceding for Terri. I asked him to, and I'm not normally into asking the saints for intercession as I tend to agree with you generally.

I think it's a safe bet the apostles and Mary are alive and in heaven.

In my spiritual wanderings, I've found only one (there may be more) prayers to St. Peter. One would think he would be a powerful intercessor. I have found no prayers to St. Paul. There may be some out there among the thousands. It's just that I haven't run across one, or if I did, I have forgotten.

One of these days I'm going to try praying to St. Joseph of Arimathea, and I desperately need the carpenter expertise of St. Joseph for some help.

[Dog Gone]

Given that ruling, it's unlikely that the Florida legislature can effectively prevent removal of the feeding tube. Further, given the ruling in Cruzan, the US Supreme Court is going to again hold that this is a state matter. They already did that in this case by refusing to hear an appeal of the FSC ruling on Terri's Law.

I'm less than convinced that Congress can constitutionally pass legislation to save Terri, but it could stall her execution. The problem is that the pace of Congress is such that it probably wouldn't pass in time to help.

[countrydummy]

PING!!!!!!!! Bump!! Dear Lord!!!!!!

[gopwinsin04]

The lord is listening!

[ArmyTeach]

I don't know what a "useless eater" is, don't think I want to go there.
"It is sort of like what the Nazi's used to think. It costs us money to feed them and therefore we would be better off without them. Intellectual murder, if you will."

Thanks for your reply. I know what the words mean, but I just can't get my mind around the concept without wanting to hit something.

[jwalsh07]

"human law is law inasmuch as it is in conformity with right reason and thus derives from the eternal law. But when a law is contrary to reason, it is called an unjust law; but in this case it ceases to be a law and becomes instead an act of violence". St Thomas Aquinas

[pickyourpoison]

bttt

[unlearner]

"The saints aren't dead according to the Christian faith."

All of the original apostles, except John, died as martyrs as they were appointed to do. Their bodies, as well as Mary's, are in the ground. Yes, since they have eternal life, their spirits are alive with God presently. The Bible defines physical death as the spirit being absent from the body.

James 2:26 - For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

2 Cor. 5:1-10 - For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle (our physical bodies) were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon... that mortality might be swallowed up of life... we are always confident, knowing that, while we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord... We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. Therefore we labor, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of Him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

1 Cor. 4:9 - For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men.

If they were alive today, the apostles would abhor and forbid the practice of making prayers addressed to them or anyone else but God alone.

Acts 3:12 - And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?

Acts 14:15-18 - And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein: Who in times past suffered all nations to walk in their own ways. Nevertheless he left not himself without witness, in that he did good, and gave us rain from heaven, and fruitful seasons, filling our hearts with food and gladness. And with these sayings scarce restrained they the people, that they had not done sacrifice unto them.

1 Corinthians 1:13-17 - Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

Acts 4:12 - Neither is there salvation in any other (than Jesus Christ): for there is no other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Philippians 2:9 - God also has highly exalted Him (Christ Jesus), and given Him a name which is above every name.

No church is inerrant, i.e. incapable of error. That is why God commanded some of the first-century churches to repent. They needed repentance from wrong behavior as well as wrong doctrine. (See Revelation chapters 1-3.)

I do not intend to denigrate Catholicism. The Roman Catholic Church remained faithful in its teaching on homosexuality, abortion and other issues while many other churches fell away. But the issue of praying to dead saints is one where the Roman Catholic Church has not remained faithful to the teachings of the Bible. She is in need of repentance.

[Aliska]

But the issue of praying to dead saints

But they aren't dead; their souls are in heaven. Let's not argue about it, ok? You do it your way, and I'll do it mine. I'm not what you would call a kosher catholic, but sometimes I just feel like I would like to think the saints would intercede for us, like they give my prayers an extra boost, especially when my faith is weak and my needs are great.

[GretchenM]

Excerpt:

Rep. Joseph Pitts, a Pennsylvania Republican who spoke about Schiavo on the House floor Thursday, said his colleagues were working on other Schiavo bills and the House leadership is "working night and day to save her life."

"Death by dehydration is a painful, agonizing and arduous process that takes 10 to 14 days," Pitts said. "Compared to starvation and dehydration, death by hanging, firing squad or even electric chair seem humane."