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To: unlearner
But the issue of praying to dead saints

But they aren't dead; their souls are in heaven. Let's not argue about it, ok? You do it your way, and I'll do it mine. I'm not what you would call a kosher catholic, but sometimes I just feel like I would like to think the saints would intercede for us, like they give my prayers an extra boost, especially when my faith is weak and my needs are great.

219 posted on 03/12/2005 2:36:56 PM PST by Aliska
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To: Aliska
I am not saying to follow my way. Follow God's way.

How can you know if something you are doing is or is not offensive to God?

There are all sorts of religious practices around the world. Some people think they are finding God by praying to various deities. Yet the Bible says these are an abomination.

It is important to worship God as He truly is, not as we might imagine Him to be or want Him to be. Otherwise we are practicing idolatry. It is also important to worship Him the right way. When we follow our own way, it is not worshiping Him in Spirit and in Truth. It is not the way He desires to be worshiped.

John 4:19-24 - The woman said to Him, "Sir, I perceive that you are a prophet. Our fathers worshiped in this mountain; and you say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship". Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe me, the hour comes, when you shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. You worship you know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour comes, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeks such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth".

1 John 5:21 - Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

1 Thessalonians 1:9-10 - You turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God; and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus, Who delivered us from the wrath to come.
232 posted on 03/12/2005 8:30:45 PM PST by unlearner
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To: Aliska
"But they [the saints] aren't dead; their souls are in heaven."

Sorry to break my response into two parts (especially since my other was so long). But I think I should have added one other important point.

There is a difference between the souls of believers being in the presence of God and believers who will have been resurrected when the Lord returns. The resurrection is something that has not happened to believers yet. It will happen when Jesus returns.

We are separated from the dead until the resurrection. We are sad at being separated from loved ones, but we can take comfort that those who put their trust in Jesus will be raised to never die again (when He comes again).

1 Thessalonians 4:13,14,18 - But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who are asleep (dead), that you sorrow not, even as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also who sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him (at the second coming). Therefore comfort one another with these words.

Notice that he does not say to take comfort that you can talk with the dead saints or pray to them or hear from them. No, we take comfort that we will see them again. (This applies to all believers, since the Bible calls all believers "saints".)

Jesus died and was raised up from the dead. Those who pray to God have a living Savior Who is able to constantly intercede for them. (See Hebrews 7:23-25 which explains that priests were unable to continue their intercessory service due to their deaths, but Jesus continues to because He is alive.) He is not dead. He is alive.
233 posted on 03/12/2005 9:01:35 PM PST by unlearner
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