Neighbor, other man charged in slaying of Jersey City family

PhillyBurbs ^

[TexasCowboy]

Since you didn't feel it necessary to repeat the post to which you refer, I have no idea what you're talking about.

If your on the thing about circumcision, there is a procedure to increase sexual enjoyment for women by splitting the hood covering the clitoris. This is usually called female circumcision.

It has nothing to do with female genital mutilation which is designed to destroy a woman's sexual pleasure.

Get the facts straight before you compare circumcision of boy babies to female genital mutilation.

[RS]

"But you wouldn't know that would you, you never read a book."

Oh C'mon Fred - where did your sense of the absurd go ?

[Dark Skies]

If you seek the truth...really want the truth...then pray and ask...Ask the Creator of the Universe who Jesus is...ask in prayer if Jesus is who He says He is...

Do you have the courage...if you keep at it, He will answer.

I beg you, not for my sake, but for yours...go after Him persistantly...demand that if He is real that He answer you.

Demand that He come to you.

That is all He asks...got the guts...keep at it and you will find the greatest adventure imaginable. He loves you...He made you...give Him the chance and He will show you...try...reach out...let Him show you...demand that He show you...

He will.

God Bless you brothera!

[Fred Nerks]

Thought you were making fun of my little history lesson. Getting touchy in my old age. Tempers are frayed.

[Dark Skies]

Sorry but I have got to go...work tomorrow.

read my next message.. I am certainly not perfect...probably much less than you. but consider Jesus...not because I ask...but because He asks...consider Him...I was completely lost until He found me...a complete idiot.

[Gondring]

I have only offered friendship...you have offered anger.

Do you want to spend eternity with the father of anger or with the Father of Forgiveness.

Is that an either/or choice?

"Then Jesus asked them, “Which is lawful on the Sabbath: to do good or to do evil, to save life or to kill?” But they remained silent. He looked around at them in anger and, deeply distressed at their stubborn hearts[...]" --Mark 3:4,5; NIV

"But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. [...] anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell." --Matthew 5:22; NIV

Just don't be a fig tree when Jesus is hungry! (Mark 11)

[Gondring]

I have my facts straight. The WHO recognizes 4 classes of FGM, one of which includes amputation similar to the typical male circumcision. But that's not this thread's topic.

And see where it says "To" down below? Click it and you'll find the post to which someone has replied.

Goodnight!

[Gondring]

Yeah... these guys owed A LOT of money, and they also spilled some beans, eh?

[Gondring]

I should have bolded the "Angry" parts, to illustrate the point I was making. I wasn't trying to be offensive, but was trying to illustrate in a humorous way the various faces of Jesus that have been presented. I don't know that anger is the opposite of forgiveness.

[Selkie]

Cops say McDonald murdered, then went on with life upstairs good worker, boss says Monday, March 07, 2005

Edward McDonald, 25, was questioned by investigators on Jan. 14, the morning police found his landlord, his wife and their two daughters stabbed to death in their Jersey City Heights home.

After the interview, McDonald walked out of the prosecutor's office - and coolly past the brother of the slain woman, Ayman Garas, who was entering the building to meet with detectives.

On Friday, McDonald and Hamilton Sanchez, 30, pleaded not guilty to four counts of murder in the slayings of Hossam Armanious, 47, his wife Amal Garas, 37, and their daughters, Sylvia, 16, and Monica, 9.

On Jan. 11, the night police say the slayings took place, McDonald, along with his wife and two young daughters, slept in the apartment directly upstairs from the rooms where the four bodies were left after the stabbings, investigators said.

They remained in the Oakland Avenue apartment until the morning of Jan. 14, when police discovered the bodies and ordered McDonald and his family to leave, investigators said.

After his release from prison in April 2004, McDonald and his family - his pregnant wife and her daughter from a previous relationship - moved into his grandmother's house in the Jersey City Heights.

About two months before the slayings, McDonald and his family moved into an apartment in the Armanious's home. Just before Christmas, his wife gave birth to a son.

His mother, Jenny Orbin - who worked for more than 20 years as a crossing guard at the school that the youngest Armanious girl attended - convinced a friend, Jim Walsh, to hire him as a laborer, paving parking lots in Jersey City.

For seven weeks after the slayings and the interview with investigators, McDonald remained in Jersey City, dutifully showing up at work. His boss described him as a "very dependable" worker.

"If I needed him to work early, he worked early. If I needed him to stay late, he stayed late," Walsh said.

"I'd take him back in a heartbeat, without a question," he said. "I wouldn't give it a second thought.

"I hope he ain't being done dirty because of his past," he added. >>>> SNIP http://www.nj.com/news/jjournal/index.ssf?/base/news-3/1110190330146560.xml

[ariamne]

The grouping of people in "communities" that excludes others is certainly odious when it is imposed on an unwilling group of people (Jim Crow laws in the South come to mind); but the islamic community in Jersey City (and face it, elsewhere in America) have self-imposed this isolation from the American public at large. That in itself is no crime; but it is not in the best interests of muslims or non-muslims and America in general, which has always benefited from assimilation, not isolation of its many ethnic and religious groups. There are some groups in America who choose to live their lives separate from mainstream America and this is their right, as long as they are peaceful and break no laws. The Bruderhoff, in my own community are a good example. But there have been way too many instances of islamic isolationism being used to plot, plan and cover up crimes (the WTC 93 bombing, 9/11)

When the news broke that two non-muslim men had been arrested in this case; the reported response in the islamic community in JC was (I paraphrase, its late and we all know the story without the links) "they were Americans, not muslims!" Who was doing the grouping in that instance, Gondring?

I am not claiming that I don't group islamics; part of the reason I do is that I hear so few speak up as individuals, except when trashing the US, its policies, or complaining about how muslims are depicted in some silly tv show, (too bad they aren't out there denouncing islamic terror attacks and letting non-muslim Americans know exactly where they stand on terror; with no "buts" "howevers" or up to date body counts on Iraqi civilians.)

The relatives of the Armanious victims have nothing to apologize for even if it is proven that these two lowbrows acted alone.

There were just too many factors in this case that led the family and others to believe that it was an islamic hate crime. The internet threats, the strong beliefs of Mr. Armanious, his open proselitizing on the islamic web site, his debates over the validity of islam itself.

Those on this thread who seek to brand us as bigots for suspecting an islamic tie-in are being disingenous by not acknowledging these factors lead to a strong case for that tie-in.

I find the gloating about the possible unexpected turn in the case disturbng. Four innocent people, two of them children, are still dead; and the fear and terror of their last hours still haunts me no matter who did the deed.

If I am wrong, and no muslim had anything to do with this, including hiring the blockheads, I will of course admit I was wrong about who did it.

But I will not apologize, because there was enough evidence, brought on by behavior on the internet and elsewhere, to believe this was an islamic hate c.rime.

[ariamne]

"Most Christians would choose Christ above Washington, dont' you think?"
______________________________
Yes, probably, (I assume you mean Washington the man, not Washington the decrepit city) but I wasn't alluding to choosing Christ over a mortal man, though I suppose some do believe Washington epitomizes America.

I said it earlier, but I don't think most Americans would have a problem with the love of country and the love of ther deity in that order,but if they did, I don't think the two are mutually exclusive, even if God comes first and America pulls a close second.

[TexasCowboy]

"But I will not apologize, because there was enough evidence, brought on by behavior on the internet and elsewhere, to believe this was an islamic hate c.rime."

Thank you, ari. I feel the same way.

There still IS enough evidence. This case is far from solved. Too many things just don't add up.

[RS]

" ...which has always benefited from assimilation, not isolation of its many ethnic and religious groups."

If they are truly assimilated, then they are not groups anymore.

"Who was doing the grouping in that instance, Gondring? "

One could surmise that it was those that forced them into the group by attacking them as a group, and the media, who decided which group leaders to take statements from.


"I find the gloating about the possible unexpected turn in the case disturbng."

I didn't notice gloating, simply some vindication that NOT jumping to conclusions was the correct course in this case.


"Those on this thread who seek to brand us as bigots for suspecting an islamic tie-in ...."

The label seems to fit those who did not merely suspect, but vocally accused, and others who did not care, but simply used the threads to repost attack messages.

"But I will not apologize, because there was enough evidence, brought on by behavior on the internet and elsewhere, to believe this was an islamic hate crime."

There was NO evidence, simply unsupported, and in many cases anonymous, statements by those who had an obvious bias in the case.
In many threads it appeared that a lynch-mob mentality had taken over, using terrorist style posters and slogans to excite the masses while abandoning reason.

[nmh]

I don't know ...

"DeFazio said that during the robbery Monica Armanious had managed to loosen the bonds with which she was bound and gagged and recognized McDonald as the upstairs tenant. McDonald killed her out of fear of being identified and Sanchez killed the other three people, DeFazio said."

This isn't sitting right with me. Why kill the entire family?

[TexasCowboy]

"I have my facts straight."

The difference is that you've read about it.

I've seen it.

[AmericanArchConservative]

<"I often wonder if islam's hatred of women doesn't have it's roots right there. Woman hatred.">

Yes exactly. Woman hatred. The reason is as follows (and it is literally the oldest reason in the world)

13) "And the LORD God said unto the woman, 'What is this that thou hast done?' And the woman said "The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat."

14)And the LORD God said unto the serpent, 'Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

15) "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed;it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."

{Genesis III, v 13 - 15}



That serpent was, of course, satan. One and the same adversary who, behaving in accordance with the curse pronounced by the most High God, has held particular vitriol in reserve for women since that time.

A hatred so unique that he took a man beguiled by mad voices in his head, psychologically shaped by his mother's abandonment and the brutal, pantheistic planet-worshipping culture around him, and offered him a "divine revelation" shot through with animus for all womankind. He even gave him the "comfort" (in my opinion) of being inhabited with/ kept company by the prince of all satan's daemons, beelzebub.

Every aspect of the P.R.O.P. (Phony Religion Of Peace) is rife with the devaluation, degradation, subjugation, humiliation, and destruction of women. Each woman, every aspect of her character, all facets of her femininity are systematically dismantled, deconstructed, and made a mockery of by this repressive and repugnant practice.

No form of vengeance would be more pointed, more in character, or more consistent with the known behaviour of our acknowledged nemesis than the creation of a religious system dedicated to such an end.

I can scarcely imagine why any woman, anywhere would voluntarily submit herself as an acolyte of Islaam... let alone remain such.

God (the One true God) save Muslim women from their own kind.

A.A.C.

[ariamne]

I am with you on this all the way , TC. We will ride it out together..

Ari

[Selkie]

Every aspect of the P.R.O.P. (Phony Religion Of Peace) is rife with the devaluation, degradation, subjugation, humiliation, and destruction of women. Each woman, every aspect of her character, all facets of her femininity are systematically dismantled, deconstructed, and made a mockery of by this repressive and repugnant practice.
>>>
Yes !
Totally true in every respect.
I read the Koran & Surah years before 9/11 ever occured.
Even then I was sickened to the core my how very false and seemingly evil Islam could be.

I come from a completely liberal "every religion is good" Academic family and they all thought I was either a narrow minded jerk or off my rocker to advance my opinion that the Muslim world was anathema to all man and woman kind.

They started to take a slightly dimmer view of Islam after 9/11, but they refuse to give any credence to the subjugation of women by Muslim men.

Ill never forget when I was getting off the Path train in NYC and a couple of women in Burkas with a small boy were getting off the train from Jersey City/Journal Square.

I was sitting waiting for my train home and as the women stepped onto the platform, the little boy they were with ran up to me.
He was cute and I smiled at him.
Instead of smiling, the kid whacked me hard on my bare legs and spit at me.
I was momentarily in shock at being atatcke dby a flipping 3 year old.
The woman looked at me and then called for th eboy to come.
I was indignant that they watched the kid hit me and did nothing to reprimand him.
Instead of waiting for my train I jumped up and ran after the the two burkaed women and their berserk little charge.
I said to them this child hit me, is this okay by you both ?
They ignored me and kept walking.
I was so annoyed that I ran ahead of them and said what was wrong with them and to answer my question or Id report the kid accosting me.
One of them looked shocked and finally responded in broken English.
"You show skin, that is wicked, men do no like, boy is right."
And then I said something to them that I cant repeat on here.
Anyway that image was so searing and disturbing.
Afraid some muslim women are totally brainwashed.


I do have two female friends who were raised muslim and are now non-religious. They find Islam utterly scary and changed their names so no one would know they were once muslim girls.
So there is hope for a few.



PAX

[ariamne]

"One could surmise that it was those that forced them into the group by attacking them as a group, and the media, who decided which group leaders to take statements from."
______________________________________________________
I don't know if you are deliberately misunderstanding; but I referring to people who group themselves in insular communities as a lifestyle, not in reference to this specific crime.

Islamic people who live in insular communities as such are not forced into living that way, alienated and non-assimilated from non-islamic peoples. It is a chosen lifestyle and is detrimental to them and to their non-islamic neighbors as it breeds mistrust and lack of cultural understanding.

But it is of course, their choice.