Judge releases DCF document in Schiavo case

Tampa Bay's 10 News ^ | 3/3/2005 | Tampa Bay's 10 News

[Ohioan from Florida]

A judge released the DCF document seeking intervention in the Terri Schiavo case. She's the brain-damaged woman at the center of a "right to die" battle.

The department of children and families document names Michael Schiavo as responsible for the mistreatment of his wife. The nine complaints cited are very technical. They essentially claim the abuse or neglect of Terri is in the form of the kind of medical treatment Terri is, or in some cases is not receiving.

The complaint accuses Michael Schiavo of: 1. Failure to educate using certain therapies in violation of guardianship 2. Experimental procedures performed without proper medical and legal procedures observed. 3. Lack of manipulation of the ward's (Terri’s) arms causing severe contractures

Circuit judge George Greer says he will make the document available to the public tomorrow. Greer ordered Terri Schiavo's feeding tube be removed March 18th.

[Gondring]

Would you please send me to a source for that info? I'm finding it disturbing to have discovered how many distortions there were in claims made by Schindler supporters, and though I have no reason to believe you twist things, I'm concerned that misinformation is being funneled through honest sources.

[o_zarkman44]

Some people gotta find fault in everything. What was going on at that time is not of your concern. Don't try to lay some kind of moral guilt trip on me about something that happened 16 yrs ago. You Gotta dig up bones so to find something that discredits one who opposes you?? Are you so threatened because I disagree with your humble opinion on Schiavo that you have to look for the same kind of cheap shot we would expect from your counterparts at DU?
I humble myself to your judgmental moral superiority.
NOT!

[o_zarkman44]

Her family seems to have plenty of money to participate in the obstruction of his right of guardianship as well.
Like you say, money talks.

[Ohioan from Florida]

I don't think ozarkman has to answer that on the forum. It is his business. I know that not every marriage that fails is the man's fault, but to your point, it does take two to tango. Each party involved needs to examine their own conscience about their relationships. I'm sure that ozarkman has struggled with this (his divorce) for a number of years. He's entitled to his opinion, as are you. I'm just suggesting that we keep the discussion here around the issue of the Schiavos and Terri's life. I'm not trying to be argumentative here, so please don't take it this way.

[Ohioan from Florida]

Let me get my hands on it and I will show you documents where Terri was improving, was speaking (or communicating) to her health care workers (that's why the bone scan was done in 1991). The implants not being removed is harder to find, though I have seen it. I have to tell you that I have so much information stored in different locations. Some of it I can get to quickly, and other things are buried in a huge 'stack of stuff' as Rush would say. I'll get back to you shortly.

[ContraryMary]

There has been so many contradictory postings about how much money there is, where it came from, and how it was divvied up. I would greatly appreciate you pointing me to some definitive information on this matter.

Also, keep in mind that Terri's care is currently being paid for by Medicaid. I am factoring in the likelihood that Medicaid would continue to pay for it.

[Ohioan from Florida]

This is what I have so far. I'm still searching for the rest of my information to give you. I have it (somewhere). Some of the files I am having trouble opening, and some have been moved. I also have some downloaded in other places. There's so much out there. I'm going to try to provide as much as I can that is from actual documents and not just retyped information. The bone scan I am finding is altered from the original in that the original is filled with handwritten comments, and the altered one is the typewritten version of that. That's been posted on many threads, but the original is harder to come up with.

Terri's exam by Dr. Baras at Bayfront Medical Center in June of 1990. Note pages 2 and 3 for Terri's documented improvement in abilities and vocalizations. These were logged in 1991.
http://www.hospicepatients.org/terri-schiavo-exam-1990.pdf

This fits in with the following timeline given by this website (which incidentally is not one from the pro-Schindler side):
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:nCl_ODi3fX8J:faculty.smu.edu/tmayo/schiavo_timeline.pdf+terri+schiavo+after+california+treatment&hl=en

>>May 12, 1990 Terri Schiavo is discharged from the hospital and taken to the College Park skilled care and rehabilitation facility.

>>June 30, 1990 Terri Schiavo is transferred to Bayfront Hospital for further rehabilitation efforts.

>>November 1990 Michael Schiavo takes Terri Schiavo to California for experimental “brain stimulator” treatment, an experimental “thalamic stimulator implant” in her brain.

>>January 1991 The Schiavos return to Florida; Terri Schiavo is moved to the Mediplex Rehabilitation Center in Brandon where she receives 24-hour care.

[the libertarian man]

Boy are you ever naive.

There was no living will.

Florida must be some backwater dive in jerkwater usa where you can get a good ole' boy sheister judge to listen to a pathological liar like scumbag mike schiavo after he received almost 2 million dollars from a fraudulent lawsuit.

He suddenly remembered his wife did not want to be hooked up to a life support system.

By the way a gastro tube is not the same thing as a ventilator.

Look if i was into law enforcement and i was a investigator looking into the obvious reasons why i would not trust his word anymore than i would trust a snake.

Puke mike shiavo was the cause of his wife's injuries and his lawyers conspired to committ insurance fraud.

All of this was for financial gain by exploitation of someboby is disabled.

MIKEY THE MAGGOT IS DOING THIS JUST FOR FINANCIAL GAIN.

KILLING YOUR WIFE OR HUSBAND SO YOU CAN COLLECT MONEY ON A INSURANCE POLICY IS ONE OF THE OLDEST SCAMS IN MODERN HISTORY.

MIKEY IS HAVING THE LEGAL SYSTEM KILL HIS WIFE BY DECEPTION FRAUD AND LIES.

VERY CLEVER.

SATAN MIKE WOULD NOT HAVE TO GET ANY BLOOD ON HIS CLAMMY HANDS .

NICE NEAT AND SEAMLESS.

THEN HE WANTS TO CREMATE THE BODY IMMEDIATLY AFTER HIS WIFE IS MURDERED.

NO INCRIMINATING EVIDENCE.

THIS GUY IS BETTER THAN CHARLES MANSON IN HIS DIABOLICAL THINKING.

A TRUE CRIMINIALLY INSANE MIND.

I COULD SEE MIKEY STANDING OVER HIS WIFE'S ROTTING CORSPE COUNTING THOSE HUNDRED DOLLAR BILLS AND LAUGHING ALL OF THE WAY TO THE BANK.

THIS WOULD MAKE A GOOD STORY PLOT FOR TALES FROM THE DARK SIDE OR TALES FROM THE CRYPT.


This lowlife maggot led the life of reilly at poor terri's expense.

The reason why he wants his wife dead because if she could only talk she would have things to say that would put mr. puke behind bars for many years.

You know goverment is so stupid and incompentant.

I never met any lawyer or politician i need not loathe or dispise or other the upmost of contempt for.

It's not just greedy sheisters like george felos i would not trust.

George felos is a lowlife scum who profits from the deaths of others.

You can also blame a lot of things on lawmakers who write sloppily written laws that have gigantic holes in them to so sheister lawyers and low life scum like george felos and his ilk can manipulate the law to their advantage.

Maybe when this is all over the state of florida ought to enact laws that require before you can unhook a life support you must have these things in writing and more restictions on how a living will can be applied.

[pickyourpoison]

Welcome to FR

[DJ MacWoW]

If Mr. Schiavo believed Mrs. Schiavo would improve with the therapies being tried early on then it wouldn't have fit with Mrs. Schiavo's desires to have her nut/hyd withheld atthat point.

Terri's collapse was in 1990. At that time, simply being fed was not heroic efforts.

In 1999, in the state of Florida, the euthanasia crowd lobbied to add feeding tubes to the same list as ventilators.

No matter what Terri said or didn't say before her collapse, feeding tubes were a normal act of nourishment and would have never been considered extraordinary measures. It would have never crossed her mind to ask to be starved.

Once the therapies failed

Nope. Schiavo got the money in Aug and Nov of 1992 and stopped all thereapy in Feb of 1993.

[GretchenM]

I haven't kept up on the details of Terri's case, just have checked in on threads from time to time, so I haven't got a true sense of who's doing or not doing what.

<< There has only been a week or two since the DCF got involved again. >>

That helps. It's what I thought was going on. The court document referenced atop this thread is written as if the DCF worker had his heart and soul in the effort to save Terri's life, which seems oddly disconsonant with DCF's behavior till now.

<< People want to think that Jeb is behind this, and he may be, but only to the extent that he told the people within the DCF to get their acts together or they'll be demoted, too. People sometimes begin to do their jobs properly when they've come under scrutiny. >>

My experience with state government (17+ years) would bear out that a governor's interest can break apart an enormous amount of stonewalling in a very short time, when nothing else could.

[MortMan]

From what I understand, most people, including doctors, who observe Terri come to the conclusion she can be helped. I cannot believe that we, as mere mortals, should be choosing death for this otherwise healthy woman.

It sounds as though you disagree.

[fiesti]

Don't you think that she would also be eligible for Medicare/Medicaid, and thereby following proper treatment and rehabilitation???

She is on Medicaid right now....Michael took all of Terri's rehab money and spending it on Felos to kill her...Yes I think Terri could benefit from theaphy and rehabah...Just taking her outside and having a TV in her room would be very beneficial.......I was a nurse and we had a patient one time that all thought was in a coma and would never come out of it She was hit by a car....The nurses put a radio in her room that played 24 hours a day and everytime a nurse would pass her door they would say her name and say something to her...We saw her walk out of the hospital..A true miracle and devotion from a lot of caring nurses.. I believe that Terri's parents can accomplish a lot with the love they have for her and there a lot of people who would volunteer time to spend with Terri and wheel her outside etc.......Please God let Terri live and given back to her parents

[exDemMom]

So the do gooders save her miserable life....... for what???? Are they going to chip in and pay for her care?? Are they going to bathe her and change her diapers?

Do you also believe that people who were born mentally handicapped, many as helpless as Terri, people who, unlike Terri, have no hope of improving no matter what kind of therapy they receive--do you believe these people should also be exterminated?

How about people who are not retarded, but cannot move or communicate because of conditions like cerebral palsy?

Because, in case you didn't know, you are already paying for the lifelong care of tens of thousands of people like this. There are many fully staffed hospitals in the U.S. that exist only for the purpose of caring for people like this, and taxpayers are footing the bill for every one of them. This isn't about money. This is about how we, as a society, treat the helpless.

[Rhiannon]

I agree that 1.8 mill would be helpful for home health care. However there may not be that much left. I am not against Terris's parent getting guradianship. They at least seem to care for her continued existance.

My point was that people have offered to pay for her care. She does not need to a charge on the public purse.

Since she only needs a feeding tube to continue life , I can't see any reason to terminate. The state which is making that decision needs to err on the side of life, not to push to terminate those helpless in society.

A lot of people see this as just an euthanasia issue. It is more. It is the state government deciding who should live or die based on quality of life. Not a route I think this country wants to make.

I think if someone wants to kill themself, that is fine. But this is not the case here. Her husband is deciding. And the law does not allow a husband to have that right to decide if his spouse who is injured should live or die.

I have a problem with the judge preventing indepepedant doctors to evaluate her condition.

Zarkman and Gondring seem to push that only her husband has the right of decision to her right to life. Marital rights don't extend that far.

[Rhiannon]

I don't like your idea of marriage if it includes a husband deciding if his wife can live or die. That is what you are promoting. It is not a mockery to intervene when the husband tries to terminate his wife with the states blessing. Many other rights collide. The patient's right of life. The parental right to push for good care of their child. A wife does not lose her rights when she marries. Perhaps you like the Middle Eastern view of marriage rather than the Western one. In the ME husbands do have the right of life or death over their wives and children

[Rhiannon]

Sorry, I misunderstood.

[Rhiannon]

The person who should make the decision can not communicate. So to answer your question, it is not the decision of Terri. This is the decision of her husband . HUSBANDS DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO KILL THEIR WIVES, NO MATTER HOW INCONVENIENT THER ARE. You may have wanted your wife to die because she was a lousy person, but you did not try to have her killed. Instead you divorced her and took custody of the kids. I get the impression that Social Service gave you hell. For that you have my sympathy.

But it seems that your past history is affecting your view that the husband is being unfairly put upon. Maybe you did not know that his attorney Felos has been active in pushing euthanasia. I have heard that Judge Greer is too. I don't know that for sure.

But please get off the idea that is is allowable for a husband to decide to have his wife killed by starvation.

[Concerned]

PEPPER777 RESPONDED TO O_ZARKMAN44: "It's the Right to Live that's in danger. Please think about this, there was NO living will in Terri's case."

I think a better way to put it is: There was NO DYING will in Terri's case!

Because Terri CHOSE NOT to file a fully-informed Written Directive to LIMIT her access to medical and other care, Terri CHOSE NOT to LIMIT her access to medical and other care. PERIOD!!! END OF ISSUE!!!

[Concerned]

O_ZARKMAN44 WROTE: "So the do gooders save her miserable life....... for what????"

DJ MACWOW RESPONDED: "What you and your friends don't realise is this is about euthanasia not just Terri."

DJ MACWOW ADDED: "If they win and you or a loved one are in a car accident or fall and suffer a head trauma, you and yours could be next. This is about judging the value of a human life. And it's a slippery slope."

Dear o_zarkman44: As the mother of a severely mentally and physically disabled 20 year old daughter, who has a very rare type of dwarfism, who basically neither walks nor talks nor feeds herself, who wears diapers, and who for the first three years of her life had a feeding tube (like TERRI!), a Broviac line, a trach and was on oxygen and a respirator, and who has the SWEETEST personality you've ever seen, I am OUTRAGED at your CALLOUS IGNORANCE of people with disabilities!!!

What DJ MacWoW DOES realize is that Terri's case is NOT just about Terri!!! It is about YOU, and ME, and ALL Americans!!!!!