TERRI SCHIAVO MARCH 2005 DAILIES Fla's Til of the Hun Sets March Date to Starve Terri

Terri's Fight, The Empire Journal, World Net Daily, Life News ^ | February 28, 2005 | floriduh voter

[cyn]

Thank you. That's helpful.

[cyn]

re: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1352657/posts?page=1774#1774:

teeth pulled by dental college without anesthesia. sounds painful doesn't it? Someone heard her scream who was at hospice at the time. people can't loan their wives to dental schools to practice pulling teeth.

1,774 posted on 03/04/2005 4:10:26 PM EST by floriduh voter | To 1569

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Hi, tut -- I'd perhaps heard and been appalled by it, but no, I did not know that it had been done without anesthesia, nor that she was crying out in pain. But I'd never heard that someone had heard her crying out in pain when her teeth (was it all 5 at once?) were extracted.

Can you imagine? Can you imagine anyone doing that, taking teeth out one by one (was it all 4-5 at once?), continuing to do that, with the person crying out in pain?

It was at the time that her parents were (conveniently) prohibited from seeing her. How did they, how did we find out about this?

[cyn]

clarification: I knew last spring as we were following this that her teeth had been extracted -- but I did not "know" it was without anesthesia. >> How is that substantiated?

How could any students, any professors be a part of that, with a human being in pain? and the implication they thought it was a normal, acceptable thing? How brutal and shameful.

[kathsua]

I don't have time to look at all the comments right now. Have you heard about the efforts to get Congress to act? Greer won't be able to ignore Congress like he ignores the Florida legislature. He doesn't have to obey the Florida Legislature because he's a royal judge and royal judge don't have to listen to the common people.

[TerryGale]

I've really tried not to think about this case too much, because it is painful. This set of pictures is compelling, until you notice that they are from 2002. What is her condition today, 3/5/2005? Neil Boortz had quite a rant going for the "other side" on his Friday program. Boortz stated that she was not responsive, that the allegations of abuse by the husband had been investigated and dismissed, that her condition was brought on by an eating disorder, and that her husband was "not "trying to kill her 'for the money' - because the money has been used up." Neil painted Terri's husband a hero for continuing to stick around and fight for Terri's "right to die."

If she is indeed still as responsive as shown in these photos, what prevents her from taking in at least liquid nourishment? I remember Karen Ann Quinlan almost 30 years ago... When they removed Karen Ann's breathing tubes, remarkably she lived on several more years anyway. I worked with mentally retarded adults for 25 years, and her ability to respond to commands to focus would indicate at least a very "profound" functioning level. Perhaps when they remove the feeding tube, they should try getting her to take a bottle. If she choked, it would at least be a quicker death than starving over days/weeks. People typically would die of dehydration in a matter of days. Starvation if someone were still getting liquid could take weeks.

[BykrBayb]

This is what happens when you hang with the wrong crowd.

[cyn]

"What is her condition today, 3/5/2005?":

Attorney David Gibbs visited Terri last night (2/24/05) with the dad, Bob Schindler. Cheryl Ford wrote the following:

Terri goes Goo~Goo eyes over Attorney Gibbs

By Cheryl Ford RN

February 25, 2005

Last night at hospice Terri's father, Robert Schindler and Attorney Gibbs visited with Terri. Mr. Schindler was the first to enter Terri's room, approaching Terri on her right. As always, Terri was delighted to see her Dad until Mr. Schindler announced that Mr. Gibbs was with him.

Mr. Gibbs moved closer to Terri's left greeting her with, "Hello Terri."

Terri, hearing Mr. Gibb's deep voice immediately turned to her left to look at him. Terri's Dad stated that once she eyed Mr. Gibbs that was the end of his visit with her because she was no longer interested in anything he had to say to her..."she was goo-goo eyes over Attorney Gibbs."

Mr. Schindler then exclaimed, "Terri, Terri, look at me. I've come here to see you as well and now you cannot take your eyes off of Attorney Gibbs, what am I chopped liver?" Terri responded with laughter to her father's comment but her eyes remained focused on Mr. Gibbs.

Bob said,"Well, Cheryl that's the last time I will be taking Mr. Gibbs along with me since my daughter did not hear anything I had to say once he had her attention."

Bob Schindler confirmed to me, and then retold this account at the Schindlers 2/28/05 Jacksonville, FL press conference.

With all the media present, no one called him a liar or expressed disbelief.

Attorney David Gibbs visited Terri last night (2/24/05) with the dad, Bob Schindler. Cheryl Ford wrote the following:

Terri goes Goo~Goo eyes over Attorney Gibbs

By Cheryl Ford RN

February 25, 2005

Last night at hospice Terri's father, Robert Schindler and Attorney Gibbs visited with Terri. Mr. Schindler was the first to enter Terri's room, approaching Terri on her right. As always, Terri was delighted to see her Dad until Mr. Schindler announced that Mr. Gibbs was with him.

Mr. Gibbs moved closer to Terri's left greeting her with, "Hello Terri."

Terri, hearing Mr. Gibb's deep voice immediately turned to her left to look at him. Terri's Dad stated that once she eyed Mr. Gibbs that was the end of his visit with her because she was no longer interested in anything he had to say to her..."she was goo-goo eyes over Attorney Gibbs."

Mr. Schindler then exclaimed, "Terri, Terri, look at me. I've come here to see you as well and now you cannot take your eyes off of Attorney Gibbs, what am I chopped liver?" Terri responded with laughter to her father's comment but her eyes remained focused on Mr. Gibbs.

Bob said,"Well, Cheryl that's the last time I will be taking Mr. Gibbs along with me since my daughter did not hear anything I had to say once he had her attention."

Bob Schindler confirmed to me, and then retold this account at the Schindlers 2/28/05 Jacksonville, FL press conference.

With all the media present, no one called him a liar or expressed disbelief.

[pickyourpoison]

Was that nurse named Rachett?

[pickyourpoison]

I was thing the same thing...maybe the voters in Pinellas County needs to see this monster they voted for.

[Dante3]

I agree.

[msp2004]

There are no more photos or videos because her HINO has prohibited any more photos or videos being taken.
Her parents have asked for swallowing test and to be allowed to attempt and feed her by mouth. All of these efforts have been stricken down b the judge. At the last attempt to starve her to death, her priest was threatened with jail time if he offered her a wafer for communion.
Your points make good sense, unfortunately the folks who are bent on killing her prevent any alternative measures to save her life or tests or pictures to show her responsiveness to date.

[cyn]

Pls see posts 1795 and 1820 for clarification -- that is an allegation, not a fact at this point, pending investigation.

It's more than enough that Terri is not allowed out in her wheelchair. In the early 90's she was taken to the mall to get her hair fixed, to museums, to parks; they even had a "Terri Schiavo Day" fundraiser for her in the community!

The ongoing attempts to misrepresent and dehumanize her are bad enough. We don't treat people that way, period.

[ruoflaw]

Yes! It was nurse Rachett and she was so evil!

[cyn]

Pls see posts 1795 and 1820 for clarification -- that (no anesthesia was used when her teeth were extracted spring 2004) is an allegation, not a fact at this point, pending investigation.

Point is, though, her teeth were not receiving the care they should have been before this point.

5 extractions at once = flashing danger sign that her teeth were not being properly followed and cared for.

[ruoflaw]

Thanks for helping us get it right 6&1/2 days it is!

[tutstar]

Don't forget the knee high rubber boots too!

[ruoflaw]

right, florida voter also said that it is alleged. Her teeth were pulled and we would all like to know if the person/s unknown were qualified and if they used anesthesia

[tuckrdout]

Here we go:

"(b) The governor may initiate judicial proceedings in the name of the state against any executive or administrative state, county or municipal officer to enforce compliance with any duty or restrain any unauthorized act. "

None of us who want Terri saved, are annoyed at your pings. Thank you for them!

[tutstar]

Something else I just thought of re Felos motion yesterday.

If MS doesn't have to abide by the guardianship requirements because the court has ruled she is PVS then why did he have 5 of her teeth pulled?

[Chocolate Rose]

Where the road ends
Academy Award-winning films and the much discussed Schiavo case bring the heavy and emotional topics of treating terminally ill, whether to stay on life support and euthanasia to the forefront

By Magin McKenna
mmckenna@thenewsstar.com


When Elisabeth Grant-Gibson recalls her late mother's refusal to allow a surgeon to amputate a gangrene-infected foot, she scales a thorny resolution that affects countless relatives of the terminally ill.

"It's a path to death," said Grant-Gibson, of Monroe. "And you know you are embarking on it."

The moment Grant-Gibson's mother declined treatment, she accepted her life's end.

While many families prickle with pain and frustration when a loved one refuses treatment for a terminal illness, "Million Dollar Baby" contemplates a rarer end-of-life issue: euthanasia.

The film, in its first weekend in Monroe, asks profound questions about a person's right to choose death.

Who may end a life? And when is it morally justified to do so?

As it considers Oregon's Death with Dignity Act later this fall, the U.S. Supreme Court will ponder those same questions on the issue of physician-assisted suicide. The court earlier this year refused to hear arguments on a Florida law to keep a brain damaged woman, Terri Schiavo, on life support.

But there are extreme moral differences between a dying person refusing treatment for a terminal illness, euthanasia and physician-assisted suicide, Grant-Gibson said.

Still there is an achingly similar end, she added: "All roads lead to death.

"What is very different is when the person is conscious, aware and making the decision, it's much easier on the family," she said. "When the person is unconscious, it's constant second guessing."

In its treatment of euthanasia, the Academy Award-winning "Million Dollar Baby" has drawn the ire of Catholic groups, and some criticism from the Center for Bioethics and Human Dignity in Chicago, Ill., which posted an unfavorable review on its Web site.

Without giving the film's ending away, a hospitalized character asks to be euthanized. But the same character accepts treatment that prolongs life — which would not necessarily happen in reality.

"The patient has the ability to refuse treatment," said the Rev. Charles Barley, chaplain at Glenwood Regional Medical Center in West Monroe and co-chair of the hospital's ethics committee.

"That's the patient's right," he said.

The Bible, too, asks questions about morally permissible killings, the most notorious being Abraham's near-sacrifice of his only son, Isaac.

While the binding of Isaac is not literally the same as euthanasia, the themes are resurfacing in popular television, film and culture, said Bob Thompson, director of the Center for the Study of Popular Television at Syracuse University.

"The 21century is going to be so much about biotechnological questions that back right smack up against moral and ethical issues," Thompson said. "When 'Million Dollar Baby,' with a theme of euthanasia, ends up in best picture, it's evidence that these films have the ability to emerge in the most mainstream of places."

Last week "The Sea Inside," a film that examines a quadriplegic's right to die, won best foreign film at the Academy Awards. Add that to "Million Dollar Baby," heated debates in Florida and Oregon and recent legislation in Europe that legalizes euthanasia in certain circumstances. The result brings a new dilemma to medicine, said Dr. Samuel Hensley a fellow at the Center for Bioethics and Human Dignity.

When doctors can't save dying people, should patients have the option of asking doctors to help them die?

"Doctors should never be put in the position of deciding between life and death," said Hensley, a physician at Mississippi Baptist Hospital in Jackson, Miss. "The benefit is that we can look at what's happening in the Netherlands and Belgium, where euthanasia is legal, and turn to people regardless of their religious persuasion and say, 'Is this the kind of country you want to live in?'"

But Hensley said it is common for doctors to remove patients from life support when a patient has requested it. In those situations, doctors are not deciding death, he said.

"That's removing extraneous life support that the patient doesn't want and leaving it in God's hands," Hensley said.

Families can avoid emotional trauma by encouraging patients to write specific living wills that detail end-of-life desires, he suggested.

Also common is for doctors to withhold food and hydration from a dying patient, said Dr. Charles Mason, medical director for Hospice Care of Louisiana. In those cases, water and food are hurting the body, he said.

Many times doctors administrate narcotics, such as morphine, to alleviate extreme pain in the terminally ill, Mason said.

"We don't do anything with the intention of purposely causing death," he said. "When I give medicines like morphine, I give them for the purpose of treating a symptom that's causing distress."

Withholding intravenous fluids from terminally ill patients can hasten death, but Mason said it does not ultimately cause death.

"Cause of death to me is still terminal illness," he said. "These are people that, no matter what, are going to die."

Recently the issue of withholding food and hydration raised concerns for the Roman Catholic Church. Pope John Paul II stated a church position in May 2004 that called intravenous nourishment morally obligatory as a natural means of preserving life.

The Catholic Church allows for a dying patient to be removed from life support when life is sustained artificially, said the Rev. Mike Haney of St. Paschal Catholic Church in West Monroe.

Such cases, he said, allow room for divine intervention.

"A person could start breathing when a ventilator is removed," Haney said. "We don't know when termination of life is going to come, and that determination should come from God."


Originally published March 5, 2005

http://www.thenewsstar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050305/LIFESTYLE/503050301/1024