Posted on 02/26/2005 10:55:20 AM PST by nickcarraway
How can the Saints be face to face with our Lord and be constrained?
I will say, that just as one asks his brothers and sisters on earth to pray and intercede, one can also ask his bothers and sisters who have gone on.
You come in here and trash the Catholic Church as a bunch of idol worshippers.
Catholics believe in three types of prayer. Latria is the only form of prayer that is worship, and that belongs to God alone. The other two forms of prayer are to the Blessed Virgin Mary and the saints, but we do not worship them, as that would be blasphemy.
Nonsense. Now you've borne false witness against me - no wonder there are so few real Christians left. Where have I labeled anyone, except those who believe that a graven image possesses supernatural abilities, as an idolater?
Are Catholics Christians?
Well since almost all Catholics pray before icons (not TO icons) then we are all idolaters.
The icons don't posess any inate supernatural ability. They just remind us of a saint and help us sinners to imitate them in leading holy lives ourselves.
Would you say a believer in heaven is omnipotent, omniscient or omnipresent?
In this case, the carving is alleged to have supernatural ability - specifically, the ability to fortell the health of the Pope. Do you agree that this is an accurate statement?
I doubt that what is said is true. Even if the carving did moisten before a Pope's death, God could be working through the carving. But like I said, I am very doubtful as most "supernatural" occurances turn out not to be supernatural after all.
If you ever are in Western Europe, check out some displays of incorrupt saints. God has shown His approval of these saints by preserving their bodies from decay. Most of them were buried in simple wooden caskets and with little to no embalming (but not all of them as Pope John XXIII was buried in a triple sealed air tight container). Even if you are not Catholic, it is something I hope you will check out.
I saw some bodies on display in the Vatican... I was repulsed, for obvious reasons. I fail to see how faith is supported by the display of human corpses.
It's not required for you (or for Catholics even) to believe that incorruptibility is a miracle. What's more important is for us to reflect on their lives.
Well, that's back into indifferent territory for me. I'll stand on my point that listening to carvings for clues on the Pope's future health is a superstition and constitutes idolatry.
Wow! My husband who is Catholic (I am not) and I debate this all the time. I think that's a great explanation.
I have always regarded the problems the five of seven early churches in Chapter 3 & 4 of the Book of Revelation were indicative of how quickly the traditions of men can run amok.
The lesson we can take from Jesus' rebuke of these churches is that men are imperfect right out of the gate. Being so close to the resurrection as they were, one would think it would insulate them from those types of errors.
Any organization that devises traditions of men is going to steer off track and gradually be so far off that they become ineffectual. The Word of God is our anchor, not the leadership of men. The Sanhedrin in Christ's time had devised traditions that were extra-Biblical, and this angered Jesus as much as anything. "Have ye not read!"
The Biblical method that is prescribed is to check our leaders with scripture as the Bereans did with Paul. Paul commended their diligence, and he was an Apostle!
Act 17:10-11
11 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming [thither] went into the synagogue of the Jews.
11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
Thank you for your encouragement.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.