Schiavo gets more time! (Till 3-18)

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Per Fox News...

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CNN LARRY KING LIVE

Interview With Michael Schiavo

Aired October 27, 2003 - 21:00 ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

LARRY KING, CNN HOST: Tonight, exclusive: Michael Schiavo speaks out about his emotional fight to have his brain-damaged wife's feeding tube removed. He says he's trying to follow Terri Schiavo's wishes. Her family calls it judicial attempted murder.
Michael Schiavo with personal insights into a 13-year ordeal is next on LARRY KING LIVE.

It's a case the whole world knows about. And Michael is joining us here in the studio with George Felos. George is his attorney. Nationally known, by the way, for the landmark Florida case that established an individual's constitutional right to refuse or withdraw from unwanted medical treatment. That was the Estelle Browning case in the late '80s. And George also wrote the book "Litigation as Spiritual Practice."

Michael, I thank you very much for coming. Why have you finally decided, by the way, to come out and speak?

MICHAEL SCHIAVO, TERRI SCHIAVO'S HUSBAND: I don't think I've really decided to come out and speak. My voice has been heard through the courts for the last six years. I'm here...

KING: But mediawise.

SCHIAVO: Mediawise? Because I think the -- my main point is because of what the legislators did.

KING: That angered you?

SCHIAVO: That angered me deeply.

KING: Let's go back a little and then bring everything up to date.

By the way, George, for the benefit of today have you filed an appeal of that rule?

GEORGE FELOS, MICHAEL SCHIAVO'S ATTORNEY: We have filed a suit in court -- in the circuit court, that's the trial court in Pinellas County, to have that law declared unconstitutional.

KING: And if that judge rules in your favor, then you -- this eventually is going to wind up in the Florida Supreme Court.

FELOS: The Florida Supreme Court. KING: But not the United States Supreme Court?

FELOS: Well, we're pursuing Terri's state constitutional remedies. The state of Florida has a very strong privacy clause, which means she can control her body and make her own decisions, and we think, under Florid law, the court's going to declare this unconstitutional.

KING: Let's go back. What happened, Michael, on February 25, 1990?

SCHIAVO: I work late at night. I used to run -- manage restaurants. I came home around 2:00 in the morning, climbed into bed.

KING: No children?

SCHIAVO: No children. Terri and I were trying to have children. We were back and forth to a doctor for a year or so, trying to find out why we weren't getting pregnant.

Climbed into bed. Terri said good night to me. Gave me a kiss. She woke up, said good night, gave me a kiss. I gave her a kiss back. I'd say, about 4:30 in the morning, I was, for some reason, getting out of bed and I heard a thud in the hall. I race out there and Terri was laying in the hall. I went down to get her. I thought, Well, maybe she just tripped or whatever. I rolled her over and she was lifeless. And it almost seems like she had this last breath.

So I held her in my arms, and I'm trying to shake her up. I ran over, I called 911. Her brother happened to live in the same complex as we did. I called him. I went back to Terri. And from there, six, seven minutes later, the paramedics...

KING: And the way she is now is the way she was that night?

SCHIAVO: That night she was totally unconscious.

KING: And later what developed? She opened her eyes open?

SCHIAVO: Probably about a month later, she opened her eyes.

KING: What was the diagnosis? What happened to her?

SCHIAVO: What we can fathom right now is her potassium level was very low. More than likely, bulima. Her potassium was very, very low. She had a 2.0, which caused cardiac arrest.

KING: Was she a bulimic?

SCHIAVO: When I was with her, when we were together, Terri would eat and eat and eat.

(CROSSTALK)

KING: ...throwing up her meals? SCHIAVO: Right. Bulimia, as from I've learned over the years, is a very secretive disease. Terri's electrolyte balance in her body that day -- she had a 2.0 potassium. Now potassium feeds your heart, makes your heart pump.

KING: Now, in November of 92 -- I want to get this straight -- you filed a malpractice suit against the doctors for misdiagnosing her, right?

SCHIAVO: Right.

KING: The jury awards you $1.2 million in the case. Did you collect it eventually? Is that all...

SCHIAVO: Eventually, yes.

KING: All right. And what was the malpractice? What did they do wrong?

SCHIAVO: Terri was -- Terri and I -- like I said, Terri and I were back and forth to the doctors. We were trying to get pregnant. Terri wasn't getting her period. We would go month to month, she would go back to the primary doctor, back to the gynecologist, back to the primary, back to the -- we did this for a month.

Comes to find out that nobody ever took a history of Terri. And in the year's time, nobody ever took a vial of blood to check anything that was going on with her.

KING: You mean they could have prevented this?

SCHIAVO: They could have prevented it.

KING: Something could have been picked up? Potassium -- a blood test you can find out potassium level.

SCHIAVO: It's easy to do with a simple blood draw.

KING: Were you, Michael, close with her parents?

SCHIAVO: I was very -- I was -- to me, I was very close. I was very close to her mother. Her mother and I are very good friends.

KING: And were they supportive with you? I mean, were you close as a family when Terri was in this state in 1990?

SCHIAVO: Yes.

KING: I mean, did you visit the hospital together? They -- you commiserated with each other?

SCHIAVO: Mostly my mother-in-law and I. The rest of the family I really didn't visit to much, but...

KING: The father-in-law didn't visit?

SCHIAVO: Yes, he did. But it was mostly my mother-in-law that took care of the day-to-day.

KING: When did a cleavage occur?

SCHIAVO: In February 14 of 1993.

KING: You remember the date?

SCHIAVO: Yes, I do.

KING: What happened?

SCHIAVO: I was in Terri's room, as I usually did. I usually...

KING: She's in a hospice, right?

SCHIAVO: She's in a hospice now. She was in a....

(CROSSTALK)

KING: And she's being fed through a tube, right?

SCHIAVO: Right.

KING: Nothing else is being done, just they feed her?

SCHIAVO: Well, I had -- there was other things being done. I mean. we can touch on the rehab part in a minute. But right now...

KING: OK, the break with the family.

SCHIAVO: Her father and mother came into the room. And they closed the door. And they asked the big question, How much money am I going to get? And I told them I wasn't going to get any money.

KING: Out of the malpractice?

SCHIAVO: Out of the malpractice suit. Then he argued with me for a little while. And then he pointed at Terri in the wheelchair and says, How much am I going to get from her money?

And I said, you have to go talk to the courts about that.

KING: She got money, too?

SCHIAVO: Yes, Terri got money.

KING: OK.

FELOS: Terri got the bulk of the money.

KING: OK, which was used for her rehab and for her medical expenses?

FELOS: Medical expenses.

SCHIAVO: From there, it blew up. He wanted to go out in the hall and have a fist fight. It was crazy. It was ludicrous.

KING: Did this shock you?

SCHIAVO: No, because he's always wanted the money. He always wanted money out of this. He even testified in the first trial that he was angry that he didn't get any money.

KING: And what about her mom?

SCHIAVO: Her mom kind of just stood between us. She yelled at me not to do this, don't do this. They stormed out of the nursing home. And from then, they tried to sue me numerous times to have me removed as guardian. And from then, they really basically didn't have any care with Terri. They hardly showed up to see Terri. Their main concern to me was the father was angry because he didn't get any money.

KING: So what do you make of what they say about you? I mean, are you shocked?

SCHIAVO: No. I wouldn't expect any less from Mr. Schindler.

KING: Did they not accuse you of denying Terri any rehab treatment since 1993?

SCHIAVO: Let's talk about the rehab.

When this happened to Terri, I sued Prudential Insurance for her rehab benefits. She (AUDIO GAP) Bayfront Medical Center for three months getting extensive rehab...

KING: In Clearwater, right?

SCHIAVO: In St. Petersburg.

KING: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

SCHIAVO: She spent three months there. Then, while she was there, we heard of this doctor in California here that was doing experimental surgery, implanting stimulators in people's brains in hopes to stimulate any activity.

Now, we were told with this, too (Ph) when this doctor looked at the CAT scans, that it was probably not going to work Because there's just no brain left. But I did it anyway, because I loved Terri. And I wanted to bring my wife back. I wanted to have my wife back in me.

So I flew her out to California by myself, with a nurse. And I spent a month there. They inserted the stimulator.

KING: Didn't work?

SCHIAVO: No, it eventually didn't work, no. The protocol for the stimulator was three months. I kept it on her for a year.

KING: Did she ever speak since 1990? SCHIAVO: Terri never has spoken a word.

KING: So various types of rehab were conducted?

SCHIAVO: Right. When I got -- when I brought her back from California, I put her in a rehab called meddaplaques in Bradenton, Florida. They deal with only head injury, spine injury patients. They worked estentionally (ph) -- they had physical therapy, occupational therapy, speech therapy, recreational therapy. They worked extensively with Terri.

KING: Nothing?

SCHIAVO: Nothing. And her mother and father were there. And they heard this. They knew this.

KING: So accusing you of not giving her any rehab is false?

SCHIAVO: Right.

KING: OK. Let me get a break in and we'll come right back, Michael. And George Felos is with us as well.

As we go to break, here's a recent statement by Terri's father after a recent court ruling.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOB SCHINDLER, TERRI SCHIAVO'S FATHER: I started kissing her and she finally started flinching away, like, Get out of here, dad. But no, she's great. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) I thank the governor. I thank everybody in the legislature. I mean, there's a lot of people up there that pulled together. It's just incredible. Totally incredible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: We're back with Michael Schiavo. With him is his attorney, George Felos. What is the current medical state of Terri?

SCHIAVO: Terri is in a chronic, persistent vegetative state.

KING: Meaning she has...

SCHIAVO: She has no awareness, no consciousness. She's in a contracted state. Her hands, her arms, her legs are contracted.

KING: We see now there, we see the eyes open. A smile. It looks like a smile.

SCHIAVO: Now, you've got to remember here, too, when the Schindlers show their little snippets of Terri, there's four and a half hours of tape. OK?

KING: This is edited?

SCHIAVO: This is edited. This is a tape where they snuck in against a court order after the judge said, do not photograph her.

KING: But she looks like -- right, she's not in a coma

SCHIAVO: Right. But you're missing half -- you're missing three-quarters of the other tape where her mother does the same thing, and she does nothing. Now, Terri makes the same noises for the last 14 years. She's made the same facial expressions. She blinks her eyes. She has normal sleep/wake cycles.

Now, the nurses have even testified in the trial that Terri makes those noises when nobody's in the room.

KING: I see.

FELOS: Larry, that's one of the controversies in this case, that people see these videos and say, oh my God, here's a person that's aware. Terri has the classic symptoms of a patient in a vegetative state. If I can have just a couple of seconds. There is the article, the seminal article on that is "The Medical Aspects of the Persistent Vegetative State." And what it says here is: "Patients in a vegetative state are usually not immobile. They may move their trunk and limbs in meaningless ways. They may even occasionally smile, and a few may even shed tears. Some utter grunts, or on rare occasions moan or scream. These motor activities may misleadingly suggest purposeful movements." And that's the case with Terri.

KING: And you've made available for us a brain scan of her, right?

FELOS: Yes.

KING: Let's show that. And I saw the piece in "The New York Times" yesterday, in which a neurologist says that this is a brain- dead person.

FELOS: What you see in the middle of Terri's skull there, that black area is spinal fluid. That's where her cerebrum used to be. And because of the lack of oxygen, it atrophied and decayed away. What the court-appointed expert said that you can't get any more abnormal than this. Literally, her cerebrum isn't there anymore.

KING: We want to show this, the father was interviewed on CNN last year. And you have said some things about him, so we want to get just the response concerning you and then we'll pick right up. Here is Terri's father.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOB SCHINDLER: I think it's a terrible injustice to her what he did to her. To leave her in -- to abandon her like that, for all those years. My God, for any human being, you know. You don't treat animals like that. I mean, this girl was literally, you know, cast aside. And he's going on with his life. (END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: You abandoned her. He says.

SCHIAVO: I've been married to Terri for 19 years. I've taken care of her for the last 14 years in this state. Terri's never had a bedsore. And for the first time in 14 years, she had an aspiration pneumonia a couple of weeks ago. The doctors have testified what remarkable care she's in. We've had guardian ad litems appointed in this case.

KING: Where did he get that information from that you abandoned her?

SCHIAVO: He pulls it out of the air. If anybody abandoned her, it was them. They walked away from her.

KING: Then why do they want her to live?

SCHIAVO: Because I believe they're being -- Mr. and Mrs. Schindler know exactly what condition she's in. They were there in the beginning. They know exactly the position she's in. But now they're being -- now they're being fed all this information from these right-to-life activists that's fueling their little flame. They know exactly the position Terri's in.

KING: They have no point to you? They make no point?

SCHIAVO: No.

KING: All right. Let's put it this way. Why do you want the feeding tube removed? In other words, let's say the parents say they'll take care of her, right? Is that what they say?

SCHIAVO: Mm-hmm.

KING: Walk away.

SCHIAVO: Why should I, Larry? This is Terri's wish. This is Terri's choice.

KING: It's not written anywhere, right?

SCHIAVO: Yes, but it's been decided for six years of litigation that this was Terri's wish.

KING: No, but I mean, why...

SCHIAVO: Now, they keep saying that I'm the only one that came to the court with these comments that Terri made. There was two other people that testified also.

KING: That she did say that?

SCHIAVO: That she did say that.

KING: But why do you want it taken out? Why do you want the feeding tube removed?

SCHIAVO: This is Terri's wish. And I'm going to follow that wish, if it's the last thing I can do for Terri. I love Terri deeply. And I'm going to follow it up for Terri.

KING: How old was she when this happened?

SCHIAVO: 25.

KING: A 25-year-old said to you, if I die, if I'm in this kind of state, most 25-year-olds wouldn't think of something like that?

SCHIAVO: It was a comment from watching certain programs. She said, we were watching some programs, and she says, I don't want anything artificial like that. I don't want any tubes. Don't let me live like that. I don't want to be a burden to anybody. She's also made comments to other people about different stories.

KING: OK.

SCHIAVO: And that has been -- that has been tried over and over and over again. And 19 judges have come to the conclusion that that was Terri's wish.

KING: You've won every legal battle here? Up to the legislature voting to pass a law that exempted this in a sense, right?

FELOS: Yes. I mean, the courts, from the -- this case has gone from the trial court to the appellate court to the Florida Supreme Court to the U.S. Supreme Court, to the Federal District Court. All of those judges have looked at this case, have looked at the facts, and have found that Mike has acted properly.

KING: OK, Mike, in view of all that, though, but the people who have painted the bad picture of you are saying, OK, she's not in pain. It's not costing him anything to keep her in this hospice. Go away. If you can't do anything anymore, she's not in pain, and the parents are willing to absorb the burden, so what?

SCHIAVO: Well, number one...

KING: So what?

SCHIAVO: I'm not going to walk away from Terri, because I love her very much. OK? Terri is not an inanimate object where we're going to pass her back and forth. I married her because I love her. And the other reason is, I won't give her back to the parents for the simple fact of what the father said in the first trial.

KING: What did he say?

SCHIAVO: When he was being talked to from my attorney, he was cross-examining ...

KING: George was questioning him? SCHIAVO: Yes. He was put in a situation, and he basically said that, if he had to, he would cut off Terri's limbs and put her on a ventilator just to keep her alive, because it's what they want.

FELOS: Yeah, he was asked, you know, let's say Terri had diabetes and needed to have a limb amputated to stay alive, would you consent to that? And he said, absolutely. And I asked him, what about the other leg? And he said, absolutely. What about an arm? Yes. The testimony was very disturbing, in that...

KING: George, is it possible he just believes in right to life, and the pure right to lifer would say, you let nothing die?

FELOS: Any type of medical treatment to keep me alive. And the parents in essence testified that that's what they want for Terri, because they want it for themselves. And that's very disturbing. Because it's Terri's right to decide what type of medical treatment, not the parents.

KING: But they're parents, right? Assuming they love their child, very hard -- if they're not in pain, to let a child go.

FELOS: It is -- it is very hard.

KING: Very hard. No this is a tragedy this whole case. There is no (UNINTELLIGIBLE) here is it.

FELOS: But the ultimate honor for, Terri, and respect for her dignity is to follow her wish. And I am sure it's very difficult for the parents but...

SCHIAVO: The parents also testified in court that they didn't know what Terri's wish was. It's what they wanted. This is what they want for Terri. So basically it wasn't about Terri anymore. It was about what the Schindlers wanted. Her brother testified it brings them joy.

KING: I have a 35-year-old daughter. I've never asked her this question. I don't know if she has a living will. I hope she does. But if she doesn't, I don't know the answer to the question. Because most 35-year-olds, I guess, don't talk about it.

SCHIAVO: Nobody talks about death, Larry.

KING: Well said. Let me get a break in, and as we go to break, here's a statement from Terri's mother. Don't go away.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you know what Terri's wishes were before the -- certainly before the accident, or the incident before she got sick?

MARY SCHINDLER, TERRI SCHIAVO'S MOTHER: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Never communicated that to you? M. SCHINDLER: No. No, she never said anything to us about that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But she spoke to Michael, Michael says.

M. SCHINDLER: That's what Michael says.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you believe him?

M. SCHINDLER: Not really.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOB SCHINDLER: The ramifications of this neglect has to be taken care of. Medically, she hasn't had a gynecological test in 10 years. Her teeth were never cleaned in 10 years. So we're going to have to restore her physically first, and then go after her brain damage. And it's not as bad as people think, or are saying that it is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Is that wrong?

SCHIAVO: Yes. Terri's had perfect care. She just had her teeth cleaned three months ago. And to touch on the gynecological, the gynecologists that took care of her told me -- and I'm only following what doctors tell me to do -- because it's so hard -- and I'm sorry to be so explicit -- to open her legs. She doesn't open them like you and I would at a gynecological examine.

KING: You to pry them apart?

SCHIAVO: Yes.

KING: So it's hard to do a gynecological exam?

SCHIAVO: Right. Right. So unless there's blood, or if there's foul smelling -- I'm sorry to be so explicit, but that's what it's all about.

KING: I guess one of the most damaging things, Michael, was the RN Carlie Ira (ph) who was a family (UNINTELLIGIBLE) -- sworn affidavits from this registered nurse who said Terri was alert and oriented when she worked with her.

SCHIAVO: And the judge threw that out. Actually, there was more to that. Go ahead, George.

KING: Tried to turn her head and tried to say something like, hi.

FELOS: The judge said it was unbelievable, to say the least. We had testified Terri's charge nurse at the nursing home when that person worked there, who saw Terri on a daily basis for four years who testified that she never saw any indication of consciousness at all. And I'll tell you why these affidavits -- that affidavit surfaced. Michael was extremely tough with nursing home staff. When the Schindlers first said Michael's not taking care of her the court appointed a guardian ad litem to do an investigation. That guardian ad litem said Michael Schiavo's is the nursing home's worst nightmare. He yells, and screams at the staff and has them in tears to care for Terri. And we have somebody here who probably was yelled and screamed at and had an ax to grind.

SCHIAVO: And she said there was a big note on the front of the chart that says, do not tell the Schindlers any statement. But she stated in her affidavit, that I took it upon myself to call the Schindlers every day. And the judge said, if you did that, then where were you at the first trial?

If you communicated this with the Schindlers, where were you at the first trial?

Why is this coming out six years later?

She also said that I shot her with insulin. If I shot her up with insulin, Terri would have been dead a long time ago.

KING: Are you unequivocally saying, Michael, that if Terri had said to you when you were discussing this, watching that TV show, I want to stay alive, you would not be here tonight, and there never would have been a court case?

SCHIAVO: That was her wish.

KING: You're totally doing this as being her wish?

SCHIAVO: Her wish.

FELOS: This man has been threatened. He had to move out of his house because of threats. He's not...

KING: From who?

FELOS: From people in the public. Letters, e-mails, telephone calls. He has nothing to gain. He's not going to receive a penny upon Terri's death.

KING: No insurance here?

SCHIAVO: There's no money. There's no insurance. There's probably about $50, 000 left in her estate. I will not receive a penny from this. Now, it's funny about that, because you know, back about two years, the Schindlers offered me $700,000 to walk away.

KING: They have that kind of money?

SCHIAVO: They get money from the right-wing activists. The right wing -- the right-to-life groups.

KING: The right-to-life group was willing to pay you $700,000 to walk away?

SCHIAVO: Right. And two years ago, I offered what was left of Terri's money to charity three times, and the Schindlers refused to do that.

KING: Is it true you became an emergency medicine nurse because of all this?

SCHIAVO: Yes.

KING: You're a nurse now in the emergency at the hospital right?

SCHIAVO: Right.

KING: We'll take a break and cover other bases, and later include some of your phone calls. With Michael Schiavo, and George Felos. And we'll ask George where the case is and how far along it will go before it goes back to another judge and ruling on the constitutionality of the law passed in the Florida legislature. We'll be right back.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOB SCHINDLER: It's inhumane. How in the world can you starve someone to death that is, you know, cognizant. She's a person. I mean, you know, it would be like starving you to death, or -- Terri suffers from severe brain damage. And she's considered as being disabled.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: We're back with Michael Schiavo, his attorney George Felos. And in a little while, we'll go to some of your calls as well.

What about charges you abused her?

SCHIAVO: The Schindlers made accusations that I strangled Terri. It confuses me, because before any of this came to light, don't you think the doctors at solitary, when it first happened, would notice marks around her neck? And if I strangled her to the point of unconsciousness, her trachea would have been crushed.

KING: Why don't they like you, Michael?

SCHIAVO: Because Mr. Schindler didn't get any money. He wants the money. He wants the control.

KING: What about her ability to swallow? She can't swallow?

SCHIAVO: Terri -- no. She's had three swallow test studies. The last one was done says, no need to repeat anymore. These doctors for 14 years have examined Terri. Speech therapists have worked with Terri. She cannot swallow. Just recently she was in the hospital. She couldn't control her secretions. So what they need to do is go in through her nose and down the back of her throat to suck those secretions out.

KING: When a feeding tube is removed, as it was planned, is that a terrible death?

SCHIAVO: No. It's painless and probably the most natural way to die.

FELOS: When someone's terminally ill, let's say a cancer patient, they lose interest in eating. And literally, they -- by choice they stop eating.

SCHIAVO: Cancer patients, they stop eating for two to three weeks. Do we force them to eat? No, we don't. That's their choice.

KING: True, you have a girlfriend?

SCHIAVO: Yes. And I am very fortunate...

KING: Does it hurt the situation, do you think, as the way the public might look at you?

SCHIAVO: From their side, I'm sure. But you know something? I'm fortunate to have two women in my life that I love very much. My girlfriend right now has done more for Terri than her own mother did. She shopped for her. She washed her clothes.

KING: How do you feel about all this? In your gut, how do you feel? You could have walked away, Michael.

SCHIAVO: I could have. But I love my wife. And I'm going to follow her wish. And nothing's going to stop me.

KING: In fact, if she stayed in that state, let's say, you could get a divorce, couldn't you, easily?

SCHIAVO: I could have.

KING: And marry this girlfriend if you choose to?

SCHIAVO: I could.

KING: And I don't think anybody would be mad at you. Right? Who would be mad at you?

(CROSSTALK)

SCHIAVO: This is between Terri and myself. I'm not asking anybody to be mad at me. I'm not asking anybody to agree with me.

KING: But I mean, but one might say putting it bluntly, who needs this?

SCHIAVO: But if you feel strongly for that, you fight for that person's choice. You have that right, as a United States citizen, to have the choice to refuse medical treatment.

KING: What was the argument Governor Jeb Bush didn't listen to, or saw the other side?

FELOS: Well, what happened with the governor was just very, very disturbing. Literally, under threat of arrest from the Florida Department of Law Enforcement, police took Terri from her deathbed, brought her to a hospital, performed a surgical procedure against her will. I mean, that's something that you think about in a totalitarian society, where the state owns you, rather than you have individual rights.

We tried to communicate with the governor. The governor was making statements about this case, which were factually incorrect. We sent him about a three or four-page letter to the governor, with copies of court orders, affidavits of doctors. We invited the governor to come and speak with us. He met with the Schindlers a couple of times so he could get the facts in this case. And we were told by the governor's attorney he never looked at our letter.

KING: Never looked at your letter?

FELOS: Never looked at the letter.

SCHIAVO: The House and the Senate...

FELOS: Didn't come and meet with us.

SCHIAVO: The House and the Senate never looked at any evidence. They didn't take any time to look at any evidence in this case at all. They made their decision based upon e-mails.

KING: Do you think that the thing that hurt your side the most, frankly, is that she looks aware? In other words, if you look at her, she looks like...

SCHIAVO: Sure, if you look at her. To a layperson, yes. That's what she looks like. But like I said, they show snippets of a four and a half hour tape. I can show you portions of tape, tapes that Terri does nothing.

FELOS: You know, Larry, this is the simplest way to explain it. Terri opens her eyes and closes her eyes. If her eyes are closed, and you say, Terri, open your eyes, nothing will happen. But if you say it enough times, maybe on the 50th time and you say, Terri, open your eyes and her eyes will open. If you take a little tape and just show the 50th time, someone would look at that and say, oh, my God, she's aware. But those tapes doesn't show the other 49 times.

I want to just read this, the EEGs. You know, there's a lot of misinformation in this case. There is no evidence of cerebral activity. This, another EEG. This EEG does not have any definite brain wave activity.

KING: That's the electroencephalogram, right?

FELOS: Yes. I mean, the tests, the facts, the independent doctors all concur.

KING: She's brain dead in your opinion?

FELOS: She's not brain dead, but she has no consciousness, she has no thought, she has no cognition, she can't -- she has no awareness.

KING: Vegetable (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

FELOS: And she never will.

KING: We'll take a break, come back, include some of your phone calls for Michael Schiavo and George Felos. Don't go away.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOB SCHINDLER: We have close to 15 doctors that are on record with the courts saying that she can improve and will improve. That's versus I think at best, he has maybe four, maybe five doctors who have testified that she cannot. So it's clearly the majority of doctors that are very excited about Terri's recovery.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOBBY SCHINDLER, TERRI SCHIAVO'S BROTHER: Every time that we go in and see Terri, and greet her, Terri becomes very alert, very responsive, and she tries her hardest to communicate with us. She tries to vocalize.

And it's the only way Terri knows how to speak to us. She's been denied therapy for over 10 years. So we have to teach her to speak again.

But she clearly tries to speak with us and talk with us. And especially her mother, when her mother sees -- when Terri sees her mother, her face lights up and immediately she tries to talk to her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: That's her brother, Bobby. And you were saying she never -- he never visited her?

SCHIAVO: I can probably count on one hand the amount of times he visited her in 10 years until the media became a big issue with him.

KING: You're saying he's lying there?

SCHIAVO: Oh, yes.

KING: Absolutely, you're saying he's lying?

SCHIAVO: Yes.

KING: You hired -- did you hire any private aides for her? SCHIAVO: Right, that was part of the rehabilitation period, when I hired a private aide for three years for Terri that spent eight hours a day, five days a week with Terri. We took her to malls. We made sure she got her hair done, her make-up was on right, trying to hopefully stimulate her as part of the rehabilitation.

KING: With something.

SCHIAVO: With something.

KING: Champaign, Illinois, hello. I'm sorry. Let's try again.

Champaign, Illinois, hello.

CALLER: Hi, Larry.

KING: Hi, go ahead.

CALLER: My question is for Michael.

KING: Yes, go ahead.

CALLER: What will be his next step -- legal or otherwise -- if the Florida Supreme Court doesn't find the new law is not in violation of Terri's state constitutional right?

SCHIAVO: I'll tell you what -- I'll let my lawyer answer that one.

KING: You first go to a judge, right?

FELOS: We first go to the trial judge. Then this goes up to -- through the appellate courts, hopefully on a fast track to the Florida Supreme Court.

KING: Now if they rule against you, you're dead, right?

FELOS: If the Florida Supreme Court says that this law is unconstitutional, then the state has the right to come in and force you to have any medical treatment they want against your wishes.

KING: Thomasville, Georgia, hello.

CALLER: Hi, Mr. King. My question is this. Who has control over Mr. Schiavo's wife? And if it's her husband, has he ever considered moving her to a different state where they have more liberal laws in regard to right-to-die, such as Vermont or Oregon?

KING: Michael?

SCHIAVO: My wife right now is with a hospice house.

KING: I mean, but do you control her movement?

SCHIAVO: I'm her guardian. I'm her legal guardian.

KING: So he's saying move her.

SCHIAVO: I think I'm doing the right thing right now where she's at.

KING: But if she wants to die, and there are states that would allow her to die...

SCHIAVO: I don't know --- I don't know how you would do that legally.

KING: George, can he move her?

FELOS: That's a very complicated thing. Each state has their own laws on withdrawal of medical treatment. And there are some cases where states have refused to move a patient from one state to the other, because they think the state's decision is going to be circumvented.

KING: Did your mother's death have anything to do with how you...

SCHIAVO: Yes, she did. My mother died, and it was the first time I ever came in contact with hospice. And I'll tell you what -- what a wonderful organization those people are.

KING: Did she die of cancer?

SCHIAVO: She died of cancer and she brought me to the realistic world.

KING: I didn't think that Terri fit the terminal concept. I thought cancer means, you know they have a few months to live.

SCHIAVO: Persistent vegetative state in the state of Florida is considered terminal.

KING: Cameron, North Carolina, hello.

CALLER: Yes. Larry?

KING: Yes.

CALLER: Yes. My question is, why not divorce your wife, or turn her care over to her parents, or a third party allowing yourself to get on with your life?

KING: That's what we asked a few times. You're saying it's purely based on that promise?

SCHIAVO: Purely based on her wishes.

KING: Let's put it this way, Michael -- if Terri saw all you've gone through -- she was somehow ability to watch this program, do you think she might say, go on with your life? I mean, do you think she might? Have a change of thought? SCHIAVO: I don't think so. I think she would -- if it was me, I think she would be in the same seat. She would be sitting here if it was me.

KING: By the way, do you feel the same way? You would want the plug pulled?

SCHIAVO: Oh, yes. Oh, yes.

KING: Belton, Texas, hello.

CALLER: Yes. Does it bother you that the death is so slow? Maybe Dr. Kevorkian-style would be a faster, more peaceful way?

SCHIAVO: Removing somebody's feeding is very painless. It is a very easy way to die. Probably the second better way to die, being the first being an aneurysm.

And it doesn't bother me at all. I've seen it happen. I had to do it with my own parents.

FELOS: You know, Larry, I want to make something very clear about that.

The law is very clear. This is not euthanasia. This is not assisted suicide. This is letting nature take its course.

KING: Hamilton, Ontario, hello.

CALLER: Yes. First of all, I would like to say to Mr. Schiavo, I'm very sorry for what you're going through.

SCHIAVO: Thank you.

CALLER: I actually went through something similar with my sister. And it's not an easy thing for people to have to do.

My question is, Now, you stated that you were the legal guardian. If there's absolutely no proof of any maliciousness on your part, why are you having to fight so hard to have this decision done?

SCHIAVO: There's been a lot of legal hoops. They've brought in different -- help me out with this...

KING: The other side? There's been another side, right?

FELOS: Well, the thing about these cases, Larry, is -- I think Michael mentioned before -- this is a death adverse society. Death is one of the last taboo subjects. We don't like to talk about it. We don't like to contemplate our own death. And watching somebody else die, like Terri Schiavo, makes people very uncomfortable.

KING: Stockton, California, hello.

CALLER: Yes. Hello, Larry King.

KING: Hi.

CALLER: My question is for Michael.

KING: Go ahead, Michael.

CALLER: Has your child and girlfriend benefited from any of the funds you collected from the malpractice suit? And do you think that your wife, Terri, would approve of the mental torture you are rendering to her parents?

SCHIAVO: Well....

KING: Was she close with her parents?

SCHIAVO: Terri was close with her parents, yes. And this has been through six years of courts. And it has been hashed out. So that is their own mental anguish they're going through. So I'm not putting them through it.

KING: She mentioned a child. You don't have a child do you?

SCHIAVO: Yes, I do.

KING: With your girlfriend?

SCHIAVO: Yes.

KIN: I see.

FELOS: And they have not benefited financially in one way.

SCHIAVO: They have not benefited at all.

KING: To Tucson, Arizona, hello. Tucson, hello.

CALLER: Hello.

KING: Yes, go ahead.

CALLER: I can't hear.

KING: I hear you. Go ahead.

CALLER: Sorry?

KING: Yes, go ahead.

CALLER: I can't hear.

KING: OK. Well, I'm sorry if you can't hear. It's going to be tough dealing with it.

We'll be right back with our remaining moments. Don't go away.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) M. SCHINDLER: I've always thought there was hope. When I go in there, you know, and she responds to me, She knows I'm there, you know?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOB SCHINDLER: And after the money came in, it was maybe two months after that, and I confronted him and asked him when are you going to begin Terri's rehabilitation? And he told me to mind my own business. Now, he had, you know, promised that before. So it was a complete change. And that was the onset of the problem.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Comment?

SCHIAVO: I don't know where you got the tape from, but that is just totally wrong. He came in the room, he wanted money. He testified he was angry he didn't get any.

KING: He wanted the money for himself?

SCHIAVO: Yes.

KING: Not for rehab for her?

SCHIAVO: No, he wanted the money for himself.

FELOS: We heard about the comments on the doctors and rehab. Cleveland clinic, prestigious institution, that was the court appointed doctor. Persistent vegetative state, no hope of any recovery, no rehabilitation. Chairman of the department of neurology of the University of Florida, College of Medicine, Shands Hospital, permanent vegetative state, no hope of any recovery. I could go on and on and on.

KING: Are the parents lying or wishful thinking?

SCHIAVO: I just think they're grasping at straws. I think they're being fed information that...

KING: And what, Michael, is their motive?

SCHIAVO: What their motive is?

KING: In order to keep their daughter alive. They don't have a motive, do they?

SCHIAVO: Probably just to make my life hell, I guess.

FELOS: Larry, you can't look into somebody's heart and know what their motive is. You can just look at their actions. And the fact is that, they've said, we don't believe it's right to let someone die like this.

KING: Aurora, Illinois, hello.

CALLER: Hi Larry. I have a question for Michael. Since he's so passionate about it being Terri's wish, when she was 25 years old, that watching a TV program, to give peace to Terri's parents and brother, why doesn't he just take a lie detector test?

And one more quick question. If they could bathe her, they could probably give her a pap smear. So he should just take a lie detector test and it would bring peace and resolution to the situation for the parents and brother.

FELOS: The ultimate lie detector has gone before 20 judges who found Mr. Schiavo to be a loving, caring husband.

KING: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) you could voluntarily take one, right?

FELOS: Sure.

KING: Would you take one?

SCHIAVO: I'll refrain from that right now.

KING: OK. This ain't a court.

SCHIAVO: It's not a court.

KING: Farmington, New Mexico, hello.

CALLER: Hi. Yes, Larry, I love your show and I watch it all the time.

KING: Thank you.

CALLER: And my question is, for her husband, if she cannot know what's going on or hear anything, why does she follow the balloons so well when they move it in front of her?

SCHIAVO: Again, that's a snippet. If you go back to four and a half hours of tape, they do the same thing over and over again, and she doesn't do it. The doctors have explained that in court.

FELOS: Most patients in a vegetative state retain reflexive vision and eye movement. That the fact.

KING: Can pictures gone in. Could CNN send in cameras and video her for a while? I mean, she's...

SCHIAVO: I mean, you can get the court tapes and watch those if you like.

KING: Could we go tomorrow?

FELOS: Terri has a right to privacy. Michael has tried to protect that. SCHIAVO: I have fought so long to keep her out of the public eye. I mean, I cannot believe that her parents would...

FELOS: We asked the judge not to release the four hours of videotapes. The last thing in the world Terri would have wanted is to have people see her in her -- in this condition.

SCHIAVO: Can you imagine? In this condition, everybody sitting looking at her?

KING: Are you a religious person?

SCHIAVO: Yes, I believe in god.

KING: Do you have any feelings before all of this about right- to-life, abortion, the whole question of it?

SCHIAVO: You're pro choice. You have to believe that you have the right to choose your own destiny.

KING: Has this affected your faith?

SCHIAVO: No. I still believe god's watching over Terri, and some day she'll be home.

KING: This is a landmark case, George?

FELOS: Yes. With the governor's decree, and the state of Florida's law, this is a clear case between how far the state can go to intrude itself in your life. Another thing I wanted to say, Larry, because I know we're ending, our time this evening, this case should be a message to everyone to write a living will, discuss with your family members what your wishes are. So for your family, the tragedy that has befallen the Schiavo and Schindler family doesn't happen to yours. So, you have to take personal responsibility for your life and do this, if not for your sake, for your family members.

KING: Michael, if you eventually lose in the courts, do you have plans?

SCHIAVO: I'll continue to take care of Terri.

KING: You just will abide by that and continue to take care of Terri?

SCHIAVO: Yes.

KING: Would you divorce her so you could marry the mother of her child?

SCHIAVO: We have no plans right now to be married. We're content the way we are.

KING: So if you lose -- if the Florida Supreme Court rules in your favor, there's no guarantee the United States Supreme Court won't hear it, right? It may not be a federal matter, but they'll...

FELOS: Who knows what the United States supreme court would do. We would hope, though, that the governor, the legislature, would respect the decision of the Florida Supreme Court. And if it's that judgment, this law is unconstitutional, let this poor woman die naturally as the court found was her choice, as she stated was her choice as she stated was her choice.

KING: Are you shocked that you've been hounded?

SCHIAVO: I kind of expected it. I mean, I was more shocked when I found that Mr. Schindler received a letter from an inmate asking Mr. Schindler if he wanted to get rid of me. And Mr. Schindler never reported that.

KING: An inmate in a prison?

Who had a contract who could take care of you?

SCHIAVO: Yes. If he wanted to get rid of me.

KING: Michael, thank you. George, thanks for making this possible.

FELOS: Thank you, Larry.

KING: Michael Schiavo, waging the legal battle to have his brain-damaged wife, Terri, taken off of the feeding unit that enables her to live. And George Felos, his book, by the way, "Litigation as Spiritual Practice." And he was involved in landmark cases in this matter in Florida. We'll be back in a couple of minutes to tell you about tomorrow night don't go away.

[d-informed-1]

wait a minute, now why dooes Michael want Terri dead? beside the "fact" it is her wish.

[d-informed-1]

little bit long, don't ya think? [link]

[kcvl]

Coma and Persistent Vegetative State

A coma is a profound or deep state of unconsciousness. The affected individual is alive but is not able to react or respond to life around him/her. Coma may occur as an expected progression or complication of an underlying illness, or as a result of an event such as head trauma.

A persistent vegetative state, which sometimes follows a coma, refers to a condition in which individuals have lost cognitive neurological function and awareness of the environment but retain noncognitive function and a perserved sleep-wake cycle.

It is sometimes described as when a person is technically alive, but his/her brain is dead. However, that description is not completely accurate. In persistent vegetative state the individual loses the higher cerebral powers of the brain, but the functions of the brainstem, such as respiration (breathing) and circulation, remain relatively intact. Spontaneous movements may occur and the eyes may open in response to external stimuli, but the patient does not speak or obey commands. Patients in a vegetative state may appear somewhat normal. They may occasionally grimace, cry, or laugh.

Is there any treatment?
Once the patient is out of immediate danger, although still in coma or vegetative state, the medical care team will concentrate on preventing infections and maintaining the patient's physical state as much as possible.

Such maintenance includes preventing pneumonia and bed sores and providing balanced nutrition. Physical therapy may also be used to prevent contractures (permanent muscular contractions) and orthopedic deformities that would limit recovery for the patients who emerge from coma.

What is the prognosis?
The outcome for coma and vegetative state depends on the cause and on the location, severity, and extent of neurological damage: outcomes range from recovery to death. People may emerge from a coma with a combination of physical, intellectual, and psychological difficulties that need special attention.

Recovery usually occurs gradually, with patients acquiring more and more ability to respond. Some patients never progress beyond very basic responses, but many recover full awareness. Patients recovering from coma require close medical supervision. A coma rarely lasts more than 2 to 4 weeks. Some patients may regain a degree of awareness after vegetative state. Others may remain in a vegetative state for years or even decades. The most common cause of death for a person in a vegetative state is infection such as pneumonia.

National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke,
National Institutes of Health

[kcvl]

little bit long, don't ya think? [link]

You sure seem a little bossy to be around for less than a month.

[kcvl]

Suspicious Circumstances: The Strange Case of Terri Schiavo
By Jennifer King
November 24, 2003

As the case of Terri Schiavo slips away from the front pages, it is worth revisiting the odd twists and tangles of this bizarre case. There are mysterious connections and odd characters which, so far, have failed to elicit the curiosity of the mainstream media. To recap the case, Terri Schiavo collapsed at home in 1990, under suspicious circumstances. Her lapse into a vigorously debated "vegetative" state is usually blamed on a potassium deficiency, but hospital admittance records also show evidence of trauma to her neck.

Further questions arise from testimony of one of her friends, who allege that Terri was unhappy and contemplating a divorce from her husband, Michael. Michael is alleged to have been possessive and jealous, at one point falling into a rage when Terri spent $80 on a haircut.

After the accident, Michael became Terri's guardian, and he used that position to seek a hefty malpractice award. A sympathetic jury took the seemingly distraught Michael at his word, awarding him 1.2 million, earmarked for Terri's rehabilitation, with an additional $300,000 going directly to him for "loss of consortium". After receiving the award, however, Michael seemingly lost all interest in Terri's rehabilitation. Several nurses who worked with Terri in the early 1990s filed affidavits which detail some very troubling events. Nurse Carolyn Johnson alleges that Michael Schiavo was adamant about not providing any rehabilitation at all for Terri - including common therapies such as placing a towel in her hands to keep them from seizing up. Nurse Heidi Law testified that she would feed Terri with a wet washcloth. Terri was able to swallow these without trouble. Nurse Law also testified that Michael refused to allow any therapy whatsoever, including the usual range of motion exercises. Nurse Carla Saver Iyer had the most damning testimony. Iyer alleged that Michael would enter Terri's room, saying, "Has the bitch died yet?" Iyer says that Michael was "elated" each time Terri's condition worsened, telling her that when Terri died he was "going to be rich" and that he planned on buying a car, a boat, and traveling to Europe. Law and Iyer both allege that they heard Terri speak, saying, "help me" and "momma".

Michael Schiavo clearly has some explaining to do. A supposedly "loving" husband only carrying out his disabled wife's orders, surely wouldn't behave this way. The Schindlers, Terri's parents, further allege that Michael withheld antibiotics when Terri developed an infection, refused to clean her teeth for seven years and has kept her family and friends from visiting her. Most outrageously, when the feeding tube was disconnected and Terri lay dying, Michael also denied her last Communion - on the basis that the Host could be considered food.

Another oddity enters the case in the personage of Schiavo's lawyer, George Felos. Felos is a noted "right to die" lawyer, who has written a book on how he "communicates" with the souls of disabled people. Felos asserts that he can "hear their screams" and that they "want to be released." Felos was infuriated when Terri's feeding tube was replaced. He angrily denounced the move, saying bizarrely that Terri's "deathbed experience was unlawfully stopped." Felos, a past member of the Hemlock Society, clearly hopes to advance along the Crusade of Death, with maybe a book and/or movie deal thrown in for good measure. Felos was Chairman of the Board of the Hospice of the Florida Suncoast, when Terri was secretly whisked out of the hospital and taken there to die.

What does Michael Schiavo gain from killing his wife? Both he and Felos have said that there is only about $60,000 left from the malpractice award monies, but they refuse to make bank account information available to either the Schindlers or the public. Michael's professed reasons for ending Terri's life ring particularly hollow in light of the fact that he has been living with his girlfriend since 1995. They have one child, and another is on the way. The Schindlers allegedly offered to let him keep the malpractice money if he would just divorce Terri and move on. So why won't he?

Several possible incentives exist. One is the insurance money. None was used as mandated on Terri's rehabilitation, and it could have been invested. By now the sum could be substantially higher, even with his legal fees. Fr. Robert Johansen has also theorized that, by divorcing Terri in a community property state, Michael stands to lose half of his possessions and other monies. Better just to kill her off and keep what's left of the insurance money and all of his worldly goods.

Terri's family believes that Michael is intent upon killing her for the same reason he denied her rehabilitation - he's got something to hide and he doesn't want Terri waking up and talking about it. Several medical documents in their possession lend credence to this theory.

Michael must be made to answer some very serious questions. If he isn't trying to end Terri's life for nefarious reasons there must be another answer. At the very least, he should be called to account on why he spent money earmarked for Terri's recovery instead on lawyers who are trying mightily to have her killed.

http://gopusa.com/jenniferking/jk_1124.shtml

[kcvl]

This is a partial transcript from Hannity & Colmes, October 27, 2003


HANNITY: Yes. Doctor, you've examined her, and you've come to the conclusion, No. 1, that can she can be rehabilitated. And when is the last time you evaluated her and what else did you find?

DR. WILLIAM HAMMESFAHR, NEUROLOGIST: I saw her last about a year ago for the court. I want to just jump in here for a second. I'm a neurologist and not a neurosurgeon.

HANNITY: I'm sorry.

HAMMESFAHR: I saw her last about a year ago and as part of the court ordered evaluations.

HANNITY: Yes, but you basically said that she could be rehabilitated, that she showed...

HAMMESFAHR: Absolutely. She is not in a coma. She did not have a heart attack. She is not in a coma presently. She absolutely can be rehabilitated. There's no question about that.

HANNITY: You know, Mr. ...

HAMMESFAHR: In fact, she follows commands right now. She follows commands right now.

HANNITY: Well, I can see that.

HAMMESFAHR: She's not in a coma.

HANNITY: I'm not a doctor, but when I see this video it's heart- wrenching to me and the fact that this poor women went six days without a feeding tube is frightening to me.

The last time we had you on, Mr. Schindler, you were very harsh in your comments about the husband. And you believe his fear is, is that if your daughter wakes up, she will have to -- a tale to tell about him. Can you...

SCHINDLER: That comes from the evidence that there's medical evidence that she had a neck injury. And as the doctor said, she had no heart attack. And her ribs and parts of her body suffered fractures.

HANNITY: Yes.

SCHINDLER: And there's really no explanation for what her collapse was. Not at all.

ALAN COLMES, CO-HOST: Doctor Hammesfahr, I read the medical report. There was a report that when she came into the E.R., she had a rigid neck. Is that consistent with a neck injury?

HAMMESFAHR: Absolutely, yes, it is. They also did X-rays at the emergency room and the X-rays showed straightening of the normal spinal curvature, which is very typical of a new neck injury.

COLMES: We heard a lot about low potassium, but this neck injury stuff is very interesting. Would that kind of a situation be consistent with the possibility of foul play?

HAMMESFAHR: I'd like to go back to the potassium for a second, because he talked about the potassium and about the diet pills issue or some other drugs.

COLMES: Sure. Sure.

HAMMESFAHR: But the medical record clearly shows that there has never been a heart attack. Potassium causes damage by causing heart attacks, so we know the potassium is not an issue.

COLMES: But with the rigid neck, is that consistent with what could be foul play?

HAMMESFAHR: I have seen a neck that rigid from trauma to the neck.

COLMES: All right. So you wouldn't venture to say foul play but -- are you intimating that?

HAMMESFAHR: I think that that type of a neck that shows a degree of injury, and I think that it needs to be looked at much more closely to find out the exact cause.

Right now we have a woman who had a collapse with no known cause. No evidence of infection, heart attack, respiratory failure or anything. The only thing found in the emergency room is a damaged neck.

COLMES: Mr. Schindler, are you going to try to prove foul play at some point and try to press some kind of a case here against your son-in- law?

SCHINDLER: Well, what we're trying to do, there are two issues. One is to get Terri therapy, because we believe she can recover.

And the second thing is we want to have an investigation. We're asking the local police, the attorney, and no one will touch it. There's a cap on it. Someone's blocking everything.

HANNITY: Mr. Schindler, we're going to continue to follow this story. I'm very, very grateful to the Florida legislature and Jeb Bush. I think they did the right thing, and we'll monitor this and have you back on again.

SCHINDLER: So were we. Thank you very much.

HANNITY: Doctor, good to see you. Appreciate you being with us.

[UCANSEE2]

Gee, son, I thought you were trying to show us you are intelligent?

Walk in her brother's shoes. I am the judge. I deny you the right to film or tape your sister's last days. I forbid her communion. I order that the law states I can withhold water and food from her until,,, over time,,, she starves to death.

I tell you she won't feel a thing, and yet, you know better. You have been with your sister, been caring for her.

I have never seen her. Won't, because I am legally blind.

In my opinion she needs to die, and starving her to death is the only way I can do it legally. Her husband wants her dead, he says she said (even though that is known in court as HEARSAY) she would want to die if like this, and you are only her brother,parents,family. I'm going with him, he can be trusted (well, there is the fact he is living with another woman and has two children by her, and she has her own insurance company), (and the fact he changed his mind about taking care of her the rest of his life), AS FAR AS I CAN SEE.


NOW. Is it OK?

[UCANSEE2]

Notice the two people who testified on Michael's behalf, who confirmed that Terri had expressed this 'wish to die' in the middle of a TV show, also participated in helping MICHAEL STARVE HIS OWN PARENTS TO DEATH.

[kcvl]

Bobby Schindler, Terri's brother, told WorldNetDaily Schiavo is distorting the conversation that triggered the rift between the Schindlers and the Schiavos.

"My father was seeking money for Terri's rehabilitation, which Michael Schiavo was refusing to give her," he said, calling Schiavo's accusation "ironic."

"In June of 1993, eight months after he got the malpractice money, he tried to kill Terri by withholding antibiotics needed to treat an infection. There was $800,000 in the fund at the time," Bobby Schindler said.

According to court records, the caregivers at the nursing home overruled Schiavo's order and treated Terri for her infection.

As additional "proof" that he's not in the legal battle for the money, Schiavo told King he offered three times to donate the money to charity two years ago.

But Bobby Schindler called it a "hollow offer."

"The offer came with the stipulation that my parents agree to let my sister starve to death. Why would we let her starve to death?," Schindler told WorldNetDaily. "This is documented. We have the letter from Felos. We even faxed it to Larry King's producers and warned them he would make this claim. I wish Larry King would have the gumption to ask follow-up questions."

[tuckrdout]

Shame on you...

[TAdams8591]

And, simultaneously.

[danamco]

A MUST READ !!!



Voice for Terri
Pro-Life Leaders Working Together to Save Terri Schiavo
Please Help Us Rescue Terri Schiavo From a Horrible Death by Starvation!
February 21st, 2005
The moment her feeding tube is removed, Terri Schiavo will begin a long, slow, painful death by starvation and dehydration.

WE NEED YOUR HELP NOW to rescue Terri from her cruel executioners. They’ve already tried to kill her once before, and she fought to stay alive.

But this may be the last chance Terri gets.

Will you help save her life?

A Special Appeal from Pro-Life Leaders Working Together to Save Terri Schiavo

Fr. Frank Pavone * Rev. Patrick Mahoney * Rev. Rob Schenck
Joe Scheidler * Troy Newman * Brandi Swindell * Mike McMonagle

Dear Friend,

Medical experts all agree that death by starvation and dehydration is perhaps the most painful, the most tortuous, and the most agonizing way to die.

Let’s face it: The human body must have water and nutrition! Just try going for one day without ANY food or liquids—and see how you feel. You won’t like it!

But in the case of Terri Schiavo—the disabled woman in Florida whose husband wants her gastro feeding tube removed so that she’ll die by starvation and dehydration—a nationwide controversy has erupted over the “right” to kill someone who can’t defend herself… can’t feed herself… and can’t speak for herself.

No doubt you’ve heard of Terri’s case. But unfortunately, you probably haven’t been told the whole story.

So if you’ll take the next few minutes to read the facts of this case, we think you’ll agree that putting Terri to death by starvation and dehydration would be the most cruel thing her husband could possibly do. And for the courts, the doctors, and our society to allow it—and participate in it—would be a crime against the sanctity of human life… and put every disabled person’s life in danger.
Lies, Myths, and Misconceptions
About Terri

Be a voice for Terri SchiavoIf you’ve heard about Terri only through the news media, you’ve probably been led to believe that Terri is in a coma… that she’s brain dead… that she’s a vegetable… that she’s on extraordinary life support… or that she wants to die but her parents stubbornly won’t let it happen.

Let me state categorically that nothing could be further from the truth!

Terri is NOT brain dead. She is NOT in a coma. She is NOT in a “persistent vegetative state.” And she is not on ANY life-support system.

She merely receives food and liquid through a gastro feeding tube because her brain injury prevents her from being able to swallow. In other words, Terri depends on food and water to stay alive—just like you and me!

Yes, her brain injury left her disabled. But there are tens of thousands of disabled people who depend on gastro feeding tubes every day, and they live otherwise normal lives.

Terri can breathe for herself. She is not on a ventilator. Her vital organs are working fine, which means she is not hooked up to a machine. Furthermore, she is not dying or being “kept alive” by artificial means. She does not have a terminal disease, and she will be able to feel pain if she is starved to death.

And that could start to happen in the next few days.

If her husband, Michael Schiavo, finally gets his way, he will force the medical staff at the hospice to remove Terri’s feeding tube so that she dies a horrible, painful death.
Why Does Michael Want Terri To Die?

It’s hard to say. When Terri suffered her brain injury in 1990 (which, by the way, occurred under very suspicious circumstances involving possible physical violence), Michael filed a malpractice lawsuit and was awarded $1.2 million in damages—blaming Terri’s condition on something the hospital staff did wrong when they were treating her.

In the malpractice trial, Michael told the jury that he dearly loved his wife and wanted to take care of her for the rest of his life. The $1.2 million was awarded specifically so that he could afford to give her the therapy and rehabilitation she required.

But then, soon after the money came in, Michael did an about-face and immediately terminated all of Terri’s therapy and rehab. And in 1998, he suddenly “remembered” that she once told him that she wouldn’t want to be “kept alive” artificially. So for the last 7 years, he has sought to get her gastro tube removed so that she would die by starvation and dehydration.

But being fed by a gastro tube does not qualify as “being kept alive artificially”! If you asked all the people who depend on their gastro tube if they would prefer to die because they’re being fed by a gastro tube, they would respond with a resounding “NO!”

But due to her brain injury, Terri can’t speak for herself. She has difficulty communicating. So she really can’t say if Michael is telling the truth or not—and whether or not she wants to die.

But we believe Terri does not want to die.

When her parents visit her, Terri laughs… she cries… she moves… and she makes child-like attempts at speech with her mother and father. Sometimes she will say “Mom” or “Dad” or “yeah” when they ask her a question. And when they kiss her hello or goodbye, she looks at them and “puckers up” her lips.

She’s able to sit in a chair… she loves to listen to her favorite music… and she recognizes her brother and sister when they come to visit.

She is definitely not in a “persistent vegetative state” (PVS). In fact, four board-certified neurologists… two board-certified internists… numerous other doctors… two speech pathologists… and a neuro-psychologist all say that Terri is not in PVS. Several of her nurses came forward to say this, too.

Other experts long ago confirmed that Terri could achieve significant recovery and lead a long, happy life if she were given proper rehab.

But Michael refused to allow proper rehab.

He also put a “Do Not Resuscitate” order on Terri’s chart. He tried to prevent the nurses from treating Terri’s infections—expecting her to develop sepsis and die. He did not allow her to be given speech or swallow therapy. He did not allow her to be given a “system” for communicating. He wouldn’t even let the nurses in the hospice put a rolled-up washcloth in her hand so that her fingers wouldn’t curl in!

Michael Schiavo hears prolife pleas for Terri's life outside his home.And get this: Soon after the malpractice money came in, Michael had Terri’s cats put to death… he stopped all her antibiotics… and he melted down her wedding ring for cash!

What’s more, he wouldn’t let her receive visits from the cute little doggies that they take through the hospices to cheer up the patients. He put her in a tiny windowless room by herself, and she’s not allowed to have any contact with other patients. She can’t go outside and see the sun. Plus, he turns family photos toward the wall so she can’t see them!

As anyone can see, Michael wants Terri to die – not get better.

In fact, even though he and Terri are still technically married, he’s been living with another woman. In fact, he has already fathered two children with her.

Even Larry King—when he interviewed Bob and Mary Schindler several months ago (September 27, 2004)—couldn’t figure out why Michael insists that Terri must die… especially when the Schindlers have begged him to let them take care of her for the rest of her life.

Michael has repeatedly told the Schindlers, “This is my wife. I will make the decisions, and you have nothing to say about it!”
But WHY?!?

Suspicions grew when the Schindlers found out about a bone scan that Terri underwent back in 1991. The doctors conducted this scan because Terri would cry out in pain during the little bit of therapy she had early on, and it turned up many shocking facts.

For instance, the physician who conducted the bone scan, Dr. W. Campbell Walker, wrote in his report, “This patient has a history of trauma.” He listed apparent injuries (mostly fractures) to Terri’s ribs, her lumbar vertebrae, her sacroiliac joints (which are near the hip), both her ankles, and both her knees.

Famed New York forensic pathologist Dr. Michael Baden – who was contacted by the news media, not the Schindlers – looked at this report last year and concluded, “It shows evidence that there are bone fractures that are in a healing stage… The trauma could be from some kind of beating that she obtained from somebody somewhere. It’s something that should have been investigated in 1991.”

But of course, Michael Schiavo never allowed the Schindlers to see the bone scan report. And when they sought to have it investigated after they found out about it three years ago, the courts refused to permit it.

All of this might lead you to ask…
How Could Someone Do All This
To Another Human Being?!?

We don’t know. We honestly don’t know.

If you tried to starve your dog to death, you’d feel the full force of the law and the wrath of every decent person in society.

But these days, if you want to get rid of someone because they’re “inconvenient,” you can do it “legally.” Euthanasia and abortion, you see, are two sides of the same evil coin. In order for society to justify killing an innocent person, we must first view them as being “sub-human.”

Unborn babies, for instance, are not “persons” in the eyes of the law, ever since Roe v. Wade. Therefore, if you don’t want the baby, you can kill it.

And thanks to the euthanasia movement, disabled patients such as Terri are deemed “unfit to live” and given “death with dignity.”

But all the compassionate rhetoric in the world can’t disguise one simple fact: Deliberately ending the life of an innocent human being who could easily live with ordinary care is murder, plain and simple.

Terri is a Catholic and the Catechism of the Catholic Church defines euthanasia as, “An action or an omission which, of itself or by intention, causes the death of handicapped, sick, or dying persons – sometimes with an attempt to justify the act as a means of eliminating suffering.”

The Catechism states that euthanasia “violates the fifth commandment of the law of God.”

“The error of judgment into which one can fall in good faith does not change the nature of this murderous act, which must always be forbidden and excluded,” it adds.

Many Americans don’t realize that Terri is NOT being kept alive against her will.

She is NOT being kept alive by “extraordinary means.”

And she is NOT in a “persistent vegetative state.”

She’s simply disabled, and needs proper care just like any other severely disabled person.

That’s why fourteen disability-rights organizations have filed “friend-of-the court” briefs to keep Terri alive. They know what this case means for other disabled persons.

Board-certified neurologist Dr. Jacob Green of Jacksonville, Florida, who examined Terri, said unequivocally: “She is not in a vegetative state.” When asked if it would be ethical to remove her feeding tube, he said, “I’d call it murder. They’re taking away any chance.”
WHY?

As you can undoubtedly see, this case really isn’t about the so-called “right-to-die,” as the news media calls it. It’s about Michael Schiavo attempting to kill his wife—and collect a lot of money that was supposed to go toward her therapy and rehabilitation. (“The love of money is the root of all evil. – 1 Tim. 6:10”)

The fight goes onAs far as the Schindler family is concerned, they’re fighting for Terri’s life because they love her very much. They don’t want her to be put to death. They don’t want her to suffer at the cruel hands of Michael Schiavo any longer. They want to help her get the rehabilitation and therapy she needs so badly. They want her to be happy and cared for by the people who love her.

Michael, on the other hand, wants her dead.

So does the ACLU, the Hemlock Society, and many other pro-death groups. They realize that if they lose this case, it will set the euthanasia movement back decades.

Pro-lifers and Christians of all kinds from all over the country and around the world are coming to Terri’s defense because, first of all, they can’t bear the thought of an innocent woman being murdered by the most painful death of all: starvation and dehydration.

And secondly, this fight is about whether or not we will allow the “culture of death” to completely take over our nation. If we lose this case, the floodgates will be wide open.

It’s also about keeping morality in medicine. Because doctors are supposed to heal, not kill.

It’s about teaching our children to have respect for life at all stages—from conception to natural death.

And it’s about whether or not our country will follow God’s laws—or be drenched in “blood-guilt” from all the innocent people we permit to be murdered with our full knowledge and consent.

A society is judged by how it treats its weakest members. The future of our society is at stake here. Will we, as the human family, have the readiness to care … or the willingness to kill?

No one has the right to make a judgment as to whose quality of life is better than another person’s. There’s no such thing as a worthless life.
What Must We Do?
And How Can YOU Help?

The Schindler family and dozens of pro-life attorneys from around the country have tried everything they could to keep Michael Schiavo, the courts, and the euthanasia fanatics from killing Terri.

But right now, time is running out for Terri. Her feeding tube could be removed THIS WEEK!!!

If it is, she will begin a long, slow, painful process of death by starvation and dehydration.

In fact, not long ago, Nurse Cheryl Ford–who took care of Terri at Woodside Hospice in Tampa, Florida—found an “Exit Protocol” in Terri’s file.

This “Exit Protocol” is a recipe for how to kill someone by starvation and dehydration, and then manage their symptoms while they slowly die.

* For instance, the nurses will put lip balm on Terri because her lips will crack, peel, and bleed from the dehydration.
* They’ll use body lotion because Terri’s skin will begin to break down and show signs of flaking, drying, cracking, or being parched.
* They’ll put a “scopolamine patch” behind her ear to enhance the drying up of saliva and other secretions.
* “Chux pads” will need to be used—and changed quite often because of incontinence of Terri’s bowels and bladder.
* When Terri begins to writhe in pain (multifocal myoclonus) and she becomes agitated from metabolic changes and electrolyte imbalances due to no fluids or nutrition, the attending staff will have to give her 5 to 10 mg of Valium (diazepam)—rectally—every 4 hours.
* If Terri experiences a Grand Mal seizure, they’ll give her 15 mg of Valium immediately, and then as needed thereafter.
* When her body shows signs of an inability to breathe by gasping for air (dyspnea), they will immediately give Terri 2 to 4 mg of morphine every 4 hours.
* And all of this will go on for 7 to 10 days…

Until Terri’s DEAD!

Radio talk show host Barbara Simpson had these timely insights…

“If this comes to pass, the court, the lawyers, the American Civil Liberties Union and Michael Schiavo will be responsible for Terri’s death… and also the deaths of others with cognitive disabilities who will be killed the same way once their families and lawyers use this case as precedent.

“Every living person, able or not, should be afraid. Very afraid. We’re all in danger from this immoral and illegal action, which makes it easier for someone to decide who lives or dies, when, and under what conditions.

“Terri Schiavo lives—day to day. She has survived a mysterious injury, 14 years of medical neglect and mistreatment, the actions of her husband, and the backhand of the courts. On that basis alone, she deserves to live.

“God help her. And help us too, if we allow her murder to take place.”
Terri Will Be Killed
If We Don’t Do Everything We Can!

Because virtually every legal effort to save Terri’s life has been slapped down by the courts—including the United States Supreme Court!—Terri’s feeding tube is scheduled to be removed as early as February 23rd… just two days from now!

The last time Terri’s feeding tube was removed—in October of 2003—she was forced to suffer without ANY food or water for 6-1/2 DAYS!!! It takes as little as 10 to 14 agonizing days to die of starvation and dehydration. But thanks be to God, Florida Gov. Jeb Bush stepped in and rescued Terri in the nick of time.

We hope he can do that again—but it will require a miracle.
And This Is Where YOU Come In…

The attorneys who are fighting for Terri’s life have a few more possible ways to prevent Terri’s murder. But these are last-ditch efforts that may or may not work. The courts are decidedly on Michael’s side—not Terri’s.

So that means we all have to come to Terri’s aid—especially through the amazing power of prayer and sacrifice—but also by sharing this story with everybody you know… by helping us get the truth to the news media and the American people… and by encouraging Governor Jeb Bush to do everything he can to rescue Terri once again.

Right now, we, the signers of this appeal, are in Florida fighting for Terri’s life on several different fronts: We’re meeting with key legislators and helping to get a new law passed that would save Terri’s life. We’re holding massive rallies and prayer vigils at the courthouse, the State Capitol, and the hospice where Terri lives. We’re even demonstrating outside Michael Schiavo’s home—urging him to let Terri live. We’re also networking with churches all over Florida and giving talks to educate the public.

The problem is, we don’t have enough money to keep this major campaign going. We all came down here with just the money in our pockets—taking a giant leap of faith that good people like you would come through for us so we could stay here as long as needed to save Terri.

We currently need $20,000 to keep going. So we’re hoping you’ll be able to help us out by making a secure, online donation of $35 or more today. That money will go directly to this project—which means you’ll be playing a vital role in the fight to save Terri’s life.

We believe there’s an excellent chance that, by putting enough pressure on the courts, the legislature, and Michael Schiavo, we CAN save Terri’s life.

But it’s going to take a determined, concerted effort on everyone’s part.

In fact, here are all the things we’re asking you to do…

1.) First, we want you to PRAY for Terri—harder than ever before! Not enough people are praying for Terri right now. And she needs our prayers now more than ever!

2.) Second, we want to ask you to FAST along with Terri if and when her feeding tube gets removed—and then offer up your sacrifices for her. If you can physically handle it, avoid taking any food or liquids for one whole day. By doing this, you’ll experience firsthand the unspeakable cruelty and pain that Terri will be suffering when they remove her feeding tube. Then offer that up for her sake.

3.) Third, please ENCOURAGE Governor Bush to do everything he can to rescue Terri. Since time is of the essence, we recommend that you send him an e-mail by clicking this link: jeb.bush@myflorida.com Or, if you prefer, you can call his office at the Florida State Capitol at 850-488-4441.

4.) Fourth, if you can, DEMONSTRATE with us in front of Terri’s hospice in Pinellas, Florida. We need thousands upon thousands of good people to be there as a witness against this blatant murder of an innocent woman. We will demonstrate night and day, as well as start a hunger strike (for those who are able). So if you live in or near Florida, or you can make the trip from anywhere in the United States, please do. We need you.

5.) Fifth, please GIVE a donation of $35 or more to help cover the costs of defending Terri in her most pressing hour of need. We are calling this project “Voice for Terri”—because Terri can’t speak for herself. So we will be there to speak for her. And the more help we receive from good people like you from all around the country, the louder and stronger Terri’s Voice will be. Please make a secure online donation by clicking this link: DONATE HERE
(We had so little time to set this up, the tax-deducible donation will go through ORW)

6.) And finally, please FORWARD this e-mail to everyone on your e-mail list. The more people who know the true story about Terri Schiavo and how she is in imminent danger of being murdered, the greater our chances of achieving a victory in this life-or-death struggle between good and evil.

It’s hard to believe, but there are many hard-hearted people out there who believe that, due to Terri’s condition, she is “better off dead.” Words cannot describe the pain and anger such sentiments cause Terri’s family.

This is their daughter, their little girl. And even in her disabled condition, she still has the right to life and the right to be loved and cared for by her family.

Terri doesn’t have to die. If you’ll carry out five or six of the steps above, we believe we can win this battle and save Terri’s life.

But without your help, she’s dead.

Please do your part—immediately—because tomorrow may be too late.

Thank you… and God bless.

Signed,
Fr. Frank Pavone
Priests For Life

Rev. Patrick Mahoney
Christian Defense Coalition

Rev. Rob Schenck
National Clergy Council
Joe Scheidler
Pro-Life Action League

Troy Newman
Operation Rescue

Brandi Swindell
Generation Life
Mike McMonagle
Family Life Educational Foundation

URGENT Reply Memo
YES! You can definitely count on my support to help save Terri’s life during this critical time!

Be a voice for Terri SchiavoI can’t believe they want to starve her to death—something our society wouldn’t even do to cats or dogs! The public needs to know the truth about this case. Therefore, I’m sending the largest contribution I can make at this time to the emergency pro-life coalition known as “Voice for Terri” so you can fight for Terri in Florida this week and beyond.

I also promise to pray for Terri… to contact Governor Jeb Bush… and to forward this e-mail to everyone on my list. Here’s my tax-deductible gift in the amount of…

* Please consider sending an Emergency Gift of $35 or more so we have the necessary resources to wage this life-or-death campaign on Terri’s behalf. Remember: She can’t speak for herself, so we are the Voice for Terri.

Voice for Terri Project
Post Office Box 77168
Washington, DC 20013

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Terri Shiavo
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Ministries
o Christian Defense Coalition
o Family Life Educational Foundation
o National Clergy Council
o Operation Rescue
o Generation Life
o Pro-Life Action League
o Priests For Life
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More Information
o Terri's Fight

Voice for Terri Project
Post Office Box 77168
Washington, DC 20013

Voice for Terri is hosted by OptimusMedia.com
Entries (RSS) and Comments (RSS).

[Freepertwo]

The "Mob" is working hard and tirelessly to save an innocent woman's life. The contentious just want to debate as though this dear woman's life is nothing more than a philosophical point to argue.

[nmh]

Thank God!

Hopefully her parents will get custody and take care of their daughter. Ideally her parents should file for divorce on behalf of their daughter since NO woman would want her husband living with his second female and now has two children with her.

[UCANSEE2]

That does seem to be at the core of his continual statements.

He wants her dead to clear his conscience.

[kcvl]

In 1994 a Multi-Society Task Force made up of representatives of the American Academy of Neurology, the Child Neurology Society, the American Neurological Association, the American Association of Neurological Surgeons, and the American Academy of Pediatrics produced a Consensus Statement on the Medical Aspects of the Persistent Vegetative State (PVS). This Statement presents a picture of the degree of diagnostic certainty achievable in this area that is in many respects misleading. Its attempt to propose a condition called Permanent Vegetative State, which would be based on a high degree of medical certainty either that there is no further hope for recovery of consciousness or that, if consciousness were recovered, the patient would be left severely disabled, confuses two different issues.


* The Multi-Society Task Force set among its criteria for PVS

1) no evidence of awareness of self or environment...

2) no evidence of sustained, reproducible, purposeful, or voluntary behavioral responses to... stimuli;

3) no evidence of language comprehension or expression. (12)

The fundamental problem with this formulation has been obvious from the beginning. Whether Carrie Coons is speaking or silent, how do you determine whether she is thinking?

* ....there is a group of patients who never show evidence of a working mind. This concept may be criticized on the grounds that observation of behavior is insufficient evidence on which to base a judgment of mental activity... (13)

The concept is indeed vulnerable to just this criticism. Behavior is observable, consciousness (or unconsciousness) is a deduction. Behavior may not in all cases be a reliable guide. Brain damage frequently takes out many of the physical capacities that normally support volitional actions; in the ‘locked-in syndrome’

* consciouness and cognition are retained but movement and communication are impossible because of severe paralysis of the voluntary motor system... Patients with this syndrome can usually establish limited communication through eye-movement signals. (14)

It can thus in observational terms consist essentially of PVS with the addition of purposive eye movements.

There are many forms of brain damage that can affect the control of eye movements. The Task Force is uneasily aware of the possibility of such errors.

http://tinyurl.com/4efms

[UCANSEE2]

We give murderers a quick death, they want Terri to have a very slow, very mind-disturbing death.

[UCANSEE2]

It's not a hard question.

[ohioWfan]

It just seems to me that there is a certain mob mentality in play here; the same type that is roundly condemned in other threads by some of the same posters here.

How exactly is it a 'mob mentality' to want to save the life of a young woman from being murdered?

Shouldn't every decent person in America be in that 'mob?'