Red-green agrees on legal expansion of laws banning Nazi movements

Spiegel (On line) ^ | 22 FEB 2005 | None given

[Red6]

Red-green agrees on expansion of the element of a crime (Machine Translated)

Red-green notified itself on that to expand the element of a crime of the Volksverhetzung. Accordingly should be future the approval or glorification of human right injuries under the national socialist punishable because it injures the Menschenwürde (Dignity) of the victims. Highly punishment: three years custody.

DPA NPD-Aufmarsch before that Brandenburg gate (archive) : approval or glorification of Nazi human right injuries should become punishable Berlin - like the "Berliners newspaper" today out of coalition circle reported, had resulted therewith an Eingrenzung of the Strafbarkeit and the punishment direction state firm. The domestic speaker of the SPD parliamentary group, Dieter Wiefelspütz, confirmed the report at the morning. In the disputed change of the Volksverhetzungstatbestands, a compromise could be obtained after the words by Wiefelspütz. After that extremists who glorify Nazi-crime more easily are supposed to be punished can.

Moreover meetings more easily are supposed to be prohibited can at commemorative sites for the victims of the national socialism if to fear is, that that would become the victims impaired becomes. Specifically the Holocaust-Mahnmal in Berlin is supposed to be mentioned in the law. The country legislators should determine other commemorative sites.

Trigger for the change in the law is the planned NPD-demonstration on the 8 May at the Brandenburg gate in Berlin. To the unification, it came at the late Monday evening in a round of to the right and domestics policies of the Bundestag parliamentary groups of SPD and green. They had searched for a week for formulations in order to arrange the punishment regulation legally flawlessly. Before they had rejected corresponding proposals of federal minister of the interior Otto Schily and attorney general Brigitte Zypries (both SPD) because of constitutional objections and had produced a characteristic draft of a bill to the change of the meeting and criminal law.

In contrast to the plans of the ministers, the element of a crime orients itself now no longer to the general interests of the public security and order, but rather at the Menschenwürde of the victims how the sheet further writes. This regulation should not itself to be sure in the planned new meeting right wiederfinden, with which extreme right up marches before commemorative sites prevented will should, but rather alone in the criminal law. Already through the punishment direction, the possibility would be given meetings of Neonazis to forbid, was named it.

[Red6]

As they sink deeper and deeper into their self-dug hole, the Germans pass laws to squeeze out such movements as the Nazi’s (Of course they see little threat from the left-of whom the RAF and many others belonged to which actually made up MOST of the political motivated terror in the 60-90s), construct elaborate conspiracy theories about how the US is to blame for their misery, and worship people like Michael Moore who portray that which they “want” to see.

With no vision, lack of resolve to push through any true reforms and an unwavering belief in socialism the current administration (Greens/SPD)is confronted with more and ever rising troubles, which it really can’t handle anymore. Unable to fight the true issues: unemployment, dropping incomes, crashing social infrastructure, the current administration finds itself making excuses and blaming others (It's Kohl's fault), knitting together elaborate conspiracy theories, backpedaling out of international responsibilities and now “expanding” the laws which forbid right wing gatherings-literature-speeches etc. Basically they are pressing the “mute” button but the problems will surely NOT go away.

Red6

[Tom Bombadil]

Red-green

I think I like the TV show better than this German Red-Green thing.

[PzLdr]

Despicable as the Nazis were, and are, isn't it a little odd that the Communists (former landlords of East Germany) are not only allowed to vote on this, but are not included on the list of those banned? As a mass murder movement, Adolf and the boys finish a distant third behind the jolly Georgian and the agrarian reformer of Beijing.

[cripplecreek]

Say the mans prayer with me brothers.


I'm a man


I can change


if i have to


I guess.

[In veno, veritas]

You ought to read about the rise of socialism in Germany in the late 1800's to just pre-Hitler. von Bismark tried making socialism illegal, it didn't work.

p.s.Shame on getting my hopes up about Red Green. Quando Omni Flunkus Moriti(sp?)

[Manic_Episode]

If they don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.

[pawdoggie]

As they sink deeper and deeper into their self-dug hole, the Germans pass laws to squeeze out such movements as the Nazi’s (Of course they see little threat from the left-of whom the RAF and many others belonged to which actually made up MOST of the political motivated terror in the 60-90s), construct elaborate conspiracy theories about how the US is to blame for their misery, and worship people like Michael Moore who portray that which they “want” to see. Good catch, my sentiments as well as I read the article. I can understand why the Germans (and some other countries) felt that they couldn't live with a real "First Amendment" freedom of speech/press provision in their constitution, but the problem is that their version of "free speech" has come to haunt us in the form of "hate crimes" (read: thought control) legislation and pseudo-legal "political correctness".

[Poser]

We're all in this together.
Keep your stick on the ice.

[Red6]

In the end, despite all the rhetoric it don't matter whether Nazi or Communist. The differences are academic as the real world application of either system has the same end state.

The Germans post WWII have been blind out of their left eye. However, ever since unification this has become much worse. Every election post unification 1989 has been determined by the swing vote in the east (Former DDR) which leans heavy left and the German politician caters to this (Schroeder/Fischer/Tritin and many others). Today the 68ers who threw the Molotov cocktails, rocks and advocated many of these radical ideas are in the German courts, schools, media and government. Tritin was a member of the Deutscher Kommunisticher Bund (spelling may be off), Fischer was a rock thrower himself and Schroeder an attorney representing those who threw the rocks. German society sees no danger in centralization of information and power nor from the political left. They see no danger in socialism and even believe that it’s noble and much superior to that chaotic system we have in the US.

To the German the US is a nation that is viewed as a threat globally in that we are “unilateral”, “militant” and “interest” driven, in their opinion. However, they don’t see the danger lurking in their back yard with the resurgence of a viable NAZI movement which even has some political power, a huge Communist movement (DKP/PDS and more) which at the state level even have a fairly high degree of power. They deny the truth (Socialism has ALWAYS failed economically), and lack the resolve to change even when blatantly obvious as today with their social reforms which are a half hearted effort too late and too little (Hartz). They see no threat nor danger from the left, only the right. As you rightfully stated, Communism is right on par with the NAZI’s in evilness, but they don’t see this that way since what is left and right is always relative to where one self stands. They stand far left. Just remember these names: Schroeder-Fischer-Tritin, need one say more (And these guys are from main stream parties)?

Red6

[Red6]

I don't like Michael Moore and think of him as a fat opportunistic a$$hole who will capitalize off of other peoples misery so he can get fame and fortune.

But freedom of speech MUST stay. What the Germans are doing today is not the answer. Muting the problem and letting it fester or even grow will bring nothing. Anyone with half a brain knows what Michael Moore is about. The market is equalizing the problem by itself already. Look at how FOX is doing and how CBS suffered from the bogus claims with the Bush reports. Think of this site “Freerepublic” and many others. At times dubious reports will play their games and people will get hurt. But state sponsored censorship is NOT the answer. That slippery slope we don’t want to go down.

You’re right with the whole “hate crime” thing. A crime is a crime. There is no need for such laws. Besides, the law should be level handed. I see the whole hate crime issue as a political correct mess which should have NEVER become law. It opens the door for censorship. Crazy!

Red6

[PzLdr]

Wasn't Fischer involved in the assault / murder of a West German cop?, and wasn't he involved with Baader - Meinhof?

[Red6]

I don't want to state something wrong. Without researching it I don't know all the intricate details.

However, Fischer surely did help create a climate in Germany where such a thing was possible. Many were involved as Jutta Ditfurth (Also Greens and another example) who never herself pulled the trigger but preached the hate (Openly advocated violence) which led up to such an act as it occurred at the Startbahn West years ago (Where she helped stir up problems over a long time and a cop was killed).

The Greens had connections with the “autonome szene” and some of their party members themselves where caught with connections to the former DDR.

Fischer I think was more of a macho guy in the whole anti-establishment-peacenik-tree huger scene. Wearing his Levi in Parliament, demonstrating against nukes, war bla bla bla, he built his claim to fame on controversy and cheap shots against those making the true hard decisions (Schmitt-Kohl). I doubt he ever had the courage to do anything that bold as being involved with the murder of a cop. He’s a loud mouth who may have contributed in creating a climate that made such a thing occur, but probably was not directly involved. Assault? Most definitely. He was a rock thrower at demonstrations. He did gang up on cops to beat them up only when he and his buddies outnumbered them. Here’s a good link for you:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1250944.stm

http://www.tnr.com/082701/berman082701_partone.html

Member of Baader Mainhof? Yep, self admitted.

Trigger puller? Probably-likely not.

Scumbag? 100% guaranteed. But the majority of Germans like him.

Red6