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To: Grzegorz 246

"...France, Germany and others would like to be treated like partners by US, but Americans care only about strong and valuable allies..."

You are right. But France and Germany were strong enough that they could say "no", since they didn't want to join into Americas little war in Iraq. In fact America was a littlebit helpless after we (let's say my gouvernment) did that, because they had to finance this adventure completely alone (exept of Japan, Poland, UK etc.). The US were never interested in German or French soldiers - they counted with a real huge sum of money. During the first Iraq war Helmut Kohl paid about 24.000.000.000,00 Euros to America. This time Schröder and Fischer paid about 50.000.000,00 Euros witch is quite a difference and they whined bitterly (BUHUHAHA) in front of the whole world about the heavy finanical burden they shared in Iraq. Furthermore Schröder declared in Munich that he wants to change NATO into a debating club. The summary of all this BS is, that German politicians do not care about American wishes anymore and they piss on NATO. They are really not interested. What could be the reason for this strange kind of behavior??!

I have an answer for you:

The gouvernments of Germany and France do not see the trans-atlantic partnership as the basement of their political actions and future anymore, since they do not like the neo-conservative, contemporary administration. Western Europe ist quite sure, that the US can't keep their position of being the only superpower in this world for a long time. There are others who appear with force on the horizon like China and India. Even Russia will find some of its old strength again (I know that this will be a nighmare for you, but I think it is quite likely). You can be sure that my gouvernment and the Frenchies will make super business in those nations, because countries like China or Russia have reason to bother the Americans. They do not need America since western Europe has all the technology they need to develop comparable standarts and those nations will get everything they dream of, just as long they pay enough money for it. This process will give big thrust to our ill economys and is extremly important for the political survival of Chirac and Schröder. All this blahblah during G.W.B. and Condolezza's visit was lip-service and politeness. Nothing more. Chirac and Schröder eat babies for breakfast if they would have a reason to do so. I doubt that they have real interest in playing a more "important" role (i.E. security council) in this world. They just want to do business as usual.

"...BTW The only, who wanted to tell us what kind of airplanes we should buy were Mr Chirac and Mr Prrrodi..."

I know that the Americans pressurized your gouvernment to buy their planes just like the Europeans did. It is always the same old game: You get a letter or a call from the President, Kanzler or whatever and you have problems to say "no". Anyway it was not a bad business for Poland because of the "pay-back-deal" with the GM-"Zafira"-factory in Silesia. I guess this was much more important than the delivery of those 48 F-16s for your airforce.

BTW - The F 16 is a very beautiful and elegant plane. The Polish airforce will have a real "sexy" baby in their hangars - even if I am still not convinced of the efficience of this weapon. And - I like the old Golf 1 better than the new one because that war was some kind of "cult". My best friend is an old Golfmaniac...


28 posted on 02/27/2005 9:30:11 AM PST by Atlantic Bridge (Quis, quid, ubi, quibus auxilius, cur, quomodo, quando?)
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To: Atlantic Bridge
Even Russia will find some of its old strength again (I know that this will be a nighmare for you, but I think it is quite likely).

There is place only for one Slavic empire in Europe. hahahaha


29 posted on 02/28/2005 8:59:39 AM PST by Lukasz (Terra Polonia Semper Fidelis!)
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To: Atlantic Bridge
"You are right. But France and Germany were strong enough that they could say "no", since they didn't want to join into Americas little war in Iraq."

It seems that I have a little different opinion in this issue. This was, in my opinion mostly, as usually, about the money and some... ambitions and pride and political situation in a case of Germany. I don't know If it is true, but once I read in serious magazine that France was (before the war in 2002) ready to send about 20.000 soldiers to Iraq If US asked them politely, give them billions in contracts and give them their own occupation zone etc. It was just too much for Americans and they decided that they may do it on their own with a little help of UK and little help of others.
In result all this French and German story about evil Americans, who want to kill poor Iraqis and destroy their paradise created by uncle Saddam was started.

"The US were never interested in German or French soldiers "

I'm not so sure.

"The gouvernments of Germany and France do not see the trans-atlantic partnership as the basement of their political actions and future anymore, since they do not like the neo-conservative, contemporary administration. "

In my opinion this not only about the current administration. Germany and France want to be treated by US like equal partners, not like children. Germany and France aren't enough strong to do it, so that's why they support so much European integration and want to dominate EU.
I understand it, but they [or rather we EUnuchs :-)] should improve their economy and military abilities (then Americans would have to treat Europeans like equal partners)not try some tricks, tactical alliances with Russia or China etc.

"Even Russia will find some of its old strength again (I know that this will be a nighmare for you, but I think it is quite likely)"

In 10 years Russia will be stronger, but I doubt that in 50 years this country will still exist. One part of Asian Russia will be probably taken over by China, the other one will be bought by Japan, Southern European part will be overtaken by Muslims - the rest as a whole or in pieces will become a part of EU. More possible will be conflict between Poland and Germany over Kaliningrad (who should take it) than Poland once again dominated by Russia.


"You can be sure that my gouvernment and the Frenchies will make super business in those nations, because countries like China or Russia have reason to bother the Americans."


Some day you will understand that China and Russia are not (at least not yet) civilized countries but it may be painful. In a case of any conflict, which sooner or later will happen If EU want to play significant role in the world, China and Russia will just nationalize French, German investment and what will you do ? Send a regiment of foreign legion and a brigade of grenadiers ?
The world dominated by US is not excellent, but for sure better than the world dominated by China.

"I know that the Americans pressurized your gouvernment to buy their planes just like the Europeans did."

Sure, but they at least tried to hid it.
31 posted on 02/28/2005 3:16:18 PM PST by Grzegorz 246
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