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Question About Social Secuirty (Vanity)
none ^ | 02/18/05 | self

Posted on 02/18/2005 11:30:14 AM PST by RSmithOpt

none


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: crisis; lockbox; politicsgeorgebush; socialsecurity
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I have a small question. After just listing to Rush, and Rush talking about Bush's social security plan to avoid a crisis, is The US House and Senate currently under restraint to keep their handles off of the social security trust fund?

Basically within 13 years (2018 according to Bush and Rush), dollar outflows will exceed inflows. So, are those numbers correct with the trust fund off limits inspite of budget defecits?

If not, the phones need to ringing off the hook with our representatives.

1 posted on 02/18/2005 11:30:15 AM PST by RSmithOpt
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To: RSmithOpt
is The US House and Senate currently under restraint to keep their handles off of the social security trust fund

Bwahahahahahaha! The trust fund is a bunch of government bonds. That means that Congress has already grabbed the cash, spent it, and left behind an IOU.

2 posted on 02/18/2005 11:33:56 AM PST by KarlInOhio (Blackwell for Governor 2006: hated by the 'Rats, feared by the RINOs.)
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To: RSmithOpt

You're a few decades too late.


3 posted on 02/18/2005 11:34:34 AM PST by IMRight
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To: RSmithOpt

Let me be the first.

THERE IS NO TRUST FUND!!

Social Security has been going into the General Fund for years now,

The Congress already got their hands on it.


4 posted on 02/18/2005 11:34:46 AM PST by Al Gator
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To: RSmithOpt

I was gonna say it, but they beat me to it. The trust fund is a (unkept) promise.


5 posted on 02/18/2005 11:36:05 AM PST by ManHunter (You can run, but you'll only die tired...)
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To: RSmithOpt
1) There is no trust fund
2) Yes, by 2018 outflows will exceed inflows meaning the Treasury/budget will have to make up the difference.
6 posted on 02/18/2005 11:36:53 AM PST by 1Old Pro
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To: Al Gator
THERE IS NO TRUST FUND!!

Gator is absolutely correct. Those receiving SS benefits today, are getting them from people who are working today.

7 posted on 02/18/2005 11:37:00 AM PST by Puppage (You may disagree with what I have to say, but I shall defend to your death my right to say it.)
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To: RSmithOpt
Yes they are accurate, and there IS NO TRUSTFUND!

it is just a accounting gimmick. The general fund must begin pouring money into SS in 2018, or maybe a bit earlier.

They left a marker when they spent the money on general budget items, and SS will be cashing in those markers.

The unfortunate disaster that is coming, is due to the fact that Medicare will be asking for 10 times what it needs now during the same period of time.

It is a financial cliff!

8 posted on 02/18/2005 11:42:56 AM PST by Cold Heat (What are fears but voices awry?Whispering harm where harm is not and deluding the unwary. Wordsworth)
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To: 1Old Pro

"meaning the Treasury/budget will have to make up the difference."

By redeeming the bonds that were issued previously. It is only in 2042 or 2052 depending on whom you ask, that they run out of bonds to redeem too. At that point, under current projections, benefits would decline slightly for some period of time.


9 posted on 02/18/2005 12:02:00 PM PST by oldcomputerguy
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To: oldcomputerguy
By redeeming the bonds that were issued previously

The bonds were only IOU's, tough to redeem.

Basically the government will have to add to the deficit to fund social security in 2018. Or, raise the retirement age, increase FICA taxes, lower benefits.

OR, Fix it.

10 posted on 02/18/2005 12:07:30 PM PST by 1Old Pro
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To: Cold Heat
"(Medicare) It is a financial cliff!"

You may be right or you may be wrong. The cliff comes if we project today into the future. That may not and probably will not happen.

Lets us say that they develop a cholesterol shot to actually clean arteries of plaques. How much would that take out of medical costs? It has already been tested.

Lets says US food makers find proof that refined carbs are causing obesity and diabetes, which they are, it is already being proven. What would a sea change in the American diet for the better do to drop health costs as companies scramble to avoid liability and fill new demands?

We are on the verge of breaking the biggest killers we face today. Material improvements in these diseases will take a huge burden out the medical system in the future.

11 posted on 02/18/2005 12:12:28 PM PST by oldcomputerguy
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To: 1Old Pro

" tough to redeem."

Say what? How can govt bonds issued by the govt and redeemed by the govt be tough to redeem. All they do is issue cash for them. Inflationary maybe but certainly not tough.

"add to the deficit to fund"

This is completely wrong. The deficit or debt includes the above mentioned bonds. Redeeming an existing bond actually remove debt from the books lessening the national debt.


12 posted on 02/18/2005 12:17:08 PM PST by oldcomputerguy
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To: oldcomputerguy
What you say is certainly true, but the SS problem and the Medicare problem share the same major cause.

Baby boomer retirement and the demographics and long life spans behind the numbers.

Scientific helps will be helpful! But the problem is not going away.

13 posted on 02/18/2005 12:18:50 PM PST by Cold Heat (What are fears but voices awry?Whispering harm where harm is not and deluding the unwary. Wordsworth)
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To: oldcomputerguy
This is completely wrong.

No, not really. Without reforms the Fed will need to borrow new money (bond issue)to pay old debt.(bonds issued earlier)

Around we go!

Can you say tax increases? How about a three dollar gas tax?

14 posted on 02/18/2005 12:23:22 PM PST by Cold Heat (What are fears but voices awry?Whispering harm where harm is not and deluding the unwary. Wordsworth)
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To: oldcomputerguy
BTW, we are currently retiring debt with borrowed money. We do it today!

At some point, the crap will hit the fan.

All this needs to be recognized by the public now. It is not a hidden plot, or a Republican caused problem.

We recognized that the economic power of the U.S. cannot sustain high taxes and continued fed spending. Bush funded some of the most important items and reduced taxes to frustrate the growth of government.

9/11 caused a bit of a deficit situation, but we will grow our way out.

The project now is to reduce the growth in government while addressing the future financial obligations.

A task that nobody wants.

SS must come off the budget. It won't help much, but it is the easiest to address.

If we cannot address it now, we will certainly be forced to address it later. The cost will be higher and all the rest of the difficulties will frustrate the process.

The government paralysis could cause the markets to react and away we go!!!!!!!

No bankruptcy attorney can fix that. The government would default.

15 posted on 02/18/2005 12:39:01 PM PST by Cold Heat (What are fears but voices awry?Whispering harm where harm is not and deluding the unwary. Wordsworth)
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To: RSmithOpt

The SSTF does not represent an asset to the USG, rather it is an unfunded liability. Anytime you hear a politican using the "solvency" of the SSTF to describe the state of SS, you know that it is a bunch of BS.


16 posted on 02/18/2005 12:44:59 PM PST by kabar
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To: oldcomputerguy
At that point, under current projections, benefits would decline slightly for some period of time.

Besides the fact that SS is a pay as you go system and the bonds from the SSTF must be redeemed using real money, the benefits will decline approximately 25% in 2042 if all the bonds are paid off. By that time, our economy would be a disaster with over 70% of the federal budget being consumed by entitlement programs and another 25% servicing the debt. Doesn't leave much else for discretionary items like national defense. LOL

17 posted on 02/18/2005 12:50:53 PM PST by kabar
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To: oldcomputerguy

There are no "bonds". There are only IOU's.


18 posted on 02/18/2005 12:51:29 PM PST by 1Old Pro
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To: RSmithOpt
is The US House and Senate currently under restraint to keep their handles off of the social security trust fund?

THERE IS NO TRUST FUND!

The so called "trust fund" is nothing more than IOU's because congress has spent EVERY PENNY that has ever been collected in SS taxes.

19 posted on 02/18/2005 12:53:28 PM PST by Phantom Lord (Advantages are taken, not handed out)
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To: oldcomputerguy
This is completely wrong. The deficit or debt includes the above mentioned bonds. Redeeming an existing bond actually remove debt from the books lessening the national debt.

You would think so. But unless the government is running a surplus in excess of the amount of bonds redeemed, the government will just issue a new bond to pay the old bond.

It is no different than paying the Visa with the Mastercard.

20 posted on 02/18/2005 12:55:22 PM PST by Phantom Lord (Advantages are taken, not handed out)
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