Posted on 02/18/2005 7:40:00 AM PST by Diocletian
This is the first step towards an eventual secession of Sandzak from Serbia.
Muslim apologist ping
I guess the USA will be expected to bomb Belgrade again.
Muslim apologist?
These linguistic separatist movements are always the first step to secession or, more accurately, take over by the political power behind the "language."
Your statement is correct. One must understand that a Turkish entry into the EU will allow this group to have a powerful sponsor for their long term ambitions.
Why not?
Nobody not a Serb or a Croat can tell any difference between Serbian and Croatian, except that they're written with different alphabets.
If you're going to have Catholic and Orthodox versions of your language, why not a Muslim variety?
The IHT is notorious for supporting the Muslims and its lightly veiled anti-Semitism is quite popular among certain groups.
The IHT was all over the genocide lies in the Balkans that led to the Clinton Administration fighting an undeclared and illegal war against Yugoslavia. The 'mass graves' of 500,000 people were dialed down to 200,000 and eventually to 2,200 and even that was dialed down by the Dutch to around 1,800 and the Dutch say the 1,800 are military combatants.
I'm sure other atrocities took place - but Clinton used a lie to support Muslim expansionism and aggression in the Balkans.
And America was thanked by the Muslims for that support on September 11, 2001.
Meanwhile sane people recognize that the region already has WAY too much "variety."
There are enough differences between Serbian and Croatian for the two languages to be considered separate (even if there is some debate on the matter). The notion of a Bosnian language makes zero sense.
"Nobody not a Serb or a Croat can tell any difference between Serbian and Croatian, except that they're written with different alphabets"
combined they would be Scroat...
as aint this bit of PC reasoning a kick in the Scroat....
This whole debate is just like that over Macedonia during the late 1800s when it was still controlled by Turkey.
The Bulgarians claimed that Macedonian was a dialect of the Bulgarian language and that therefore the Macedonians were really Bulgarians and should be added to the Bulgarian state.
The Serbs claimed that Macedonian was a dialect of the Serbian language and that therefore the Macedonians were really Serbs and should be added to Serbia.
A third group claimed that Macedonian was really an independent language and that therefore Macedonia should be an independent country.
Meanwhile, linguists recognized that Serbian shaded into Macedonian which shaded into Bulgarian. Any "borders" were intrinsically artificial in nature.
Nobody listened to the linguists.
Why, that means Americans must be English!!! And people in Alabama are not Americans but Southerners by "nationality." It's this kind of rationalization and twisted "logic" that has created the Balkan insane asylum.
Serbian ruling elite, who are like the former Russian "reformers," ready to sell Serbia lock, stock and barrel for a little power, are only good at being court jesters of the West, as notoriously bad imitators of something they are not -- western Europeans and particularly Americans. There is nothing more pathetic than Vuk Drashkovich trying to act "cool" with his strong accent and bad English. But such is the world today, and the government of Serbia feels it has an obligation to teach Muslim 5th column in Serbia how to be more Muslim 5th column.
No one in Europe or America does that! If Muslims want to have private schools where they teach "Bosnian" they should be able to do so, but not at taxpayers' expense. How laughable would it be if in Chicago the Serbs demanded that the State of Illinois pay for their education -- in Serbian? Or for that matter demand that from Washington? But that's exactly what the Serbian elite is doing to worm its way where the sun don't shine in order to gain favor of the "international community" and to show that some of us are actually "good Serbs" who hate everything and all Serbian!
Strictly speaking, there aren't. Some grammatical variations, differences in pronunciation notwithstanding, do not by themselves qualify as language identifiers. To this day, despite efforts to the contrary by the Croatian side, the Serbian and the Croatian version of the Serbian are perfectly intelligible to both. The differences in some words exist as a matter of culture, history and locality, which would make the Croatian version a dialect and not a "language" of itself.
Indeed, all the other "languages" seeking "independence" from Serbian use the very same arguments the Croatians used, all of which are not universally applied anywhere in the world except in the Balkans: (1) if we use it, we can call it by our name, (2) some words are different, (3) there are three extra sounds (and letters).
The bottom line is that for none of these "languages" is there a translator needed! This is not to say that in due time, through isolation, the one and the same language will not become a separate language, just as the common Old Slavonic language of all Slavs differentiated into closely related but separate Slavic languages.
The article is also spreading disinformation calling the original language Serbo-Croatian. The Vienna Agreement of 1850 establishes the language spoken by all Serbs and only some who identify as Croats to be the literary (not necessarily the spoken) language of Croats. Thus, the Croats accepted a language that is spoken and written by all Serbs as their literary language -- using the iyekavski pronunciation (western Serbian dialect) although some Croats in Croatia proper use ekavski (in the north) and ikavski in Dalmatia.
This of course was rejected by the bulk of both groups.
I didn't say that. I have no particular preference either way, which language Croatian use. Right now they use a locally adopted Serbian standard as Croatian "language" which is the language spoken by most Croats, just as Americans use a locally adopted English standard which some call "American" but not seriously.
Since 1850, I am sure Croatian linguists could have developed a genuine Croatian literary language, but despite the fact that Gaj had no authority or backing in Croatia, the Serbian standard stuck despite its rejection of the ruling elite, just as the Vuk's alphabetical standard stuck despite (justifiable) opposition from the Serbian ruling elite.
The Illyrian movement was primarily Croatian, and a different name for a Yugoslav idea. But, if it makes you feel any better, Vuk's Standard has caused irreparable damage to Serbian culture and literature, so we can lament together on this subject.
:-)
Kosta, but isnt the Illyrian movement claimed outright by the Albanians? Sumptin aint kosher 'ere!
Truly classic post!
Croatian is only a dialect of the Serbian language.
My understanding is that this theory is likely to be held primarily (or only) by Serbs.
What a shock!
Linguistically speaking, you could just as accurately designate Serbian as a dialect of Croatian. These sorts of distinctions are entirely political in origin, not linguistic or scientific. Absolutely nobody but Serbs and Croats gives a rat's hind end.
The term Illyrian was not associated at all with Albanians. You have to remember that Albanians had no written, arhcitectural or any other record of any civilization, and that they became a nation by stroke of a pen when Albania was created for political purposes to prevent Serbia from reaching the coast.
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