No on HR418 - Sec 203 - Linking of State Driver License Databases

[CORedneck]

Sometime this week, HR418 - Real ID Act of 2005 will be riding on a must pass spending bill to the Senate. One of the concerns of the bill is the requirement that states must join the Driver License Agreement (DLA) - PDF Document. The DLA will link the state DMV databases between all the US states & Territories, Canada and Mexico. The devil in the details is located on page 4, item 11 defining jurisdiction.

What this means is your most personal information like Social Security Number will be available anywhere in North America including the corrupt Mexican cop. This would be a bonanza for Identity Theft which has gotten prevalent within the last 5 years. In addition, there are no limitations what could be put in the databases besides motor vehicle related items. There was an amendment to HR418 which would have banned information related to citizens practicing their 1st, 2nd and 14th amendment rights but is was rejected.

In addition, get a traffic ticket even in Mexico down by Belize while on vacation from a Mexican cop who thinks of you as a stupid gringo would be reported to your home state DMV for points towards license suspension and a car insurance increase to add insuly to injury.

If the state you live in joins the DLA, it is required to apply tickets against your record even from jurisdictions that have not signed it yet. So that means if you get that ticket in Cancun even though the Mexican State of Quintana Roo has not signed it yet, it still hammers you at home. In addition, your state's databses is avaible to be snooped.

The Senate needs to take a long look at some of the provisions of HR418 especailly Section 203. States should not be required to join the Driver License Agreement especially if they want to protect the privacy of their residents.

If states refuse to toe the line, then their citizens would become non-persons as far as the Federal Gov't is concerned such as boarding an airplane or train for example. The US House through Rep. Sensebrenner (R-WI) says this is voluntary. I don't think so. It is coercion and black mail.

Section 203 should be outrightly be rejected and considered DOA ! What would people think if this was being pushed by a Democratic Congress instead ?

[Bikers4Bush]

Having our info available to Mexico and Canada is not acceptable.

[goldstategop]

If we're going to safeguard our borders, we'll need to exchange relevant info with law enforcement authorities in neighboring countries. After all, millions do cross both our northern and southern borders 365 days a year - and how many of them could be terrorists or sleeper agents from hostile countries? We need to check to see who's here legitimately and also to safeguard drivers' licenses and SS cards from being counterfeited, forged and abused to further illegal ends. Its a different world after 9/11 and that's why databases must be linked.

Denny Crane: "There are two places to find the truth. First God and then Fox News."

[WakeUpAndVote]

Sure, we can share this information with the EU as well. We all know that their security is bullet proof.

[McGavin999]

I'm all for it. Your "precious" social security information is available to just about anyone who wants it now as it is. We have to do something about the illegal alien situation and this is the best solution.

You want to protect your personal information, then don't drive.

[A Strict Constructionist]

I'm so glad some people are for "One World Government". NOT

I'm not willing to give up any of my freedom for a "little" security!

[lilylangtree]

It's bad enough when we activate our credit cards we end up talking to someone in India. Now, letting the world know about our social security number. This is personal invasion. no, No, NO!

[Congressman Billybob]

Connections to Canada and Mexico are dubious. But connections within the states already exist. Convictions are already communicated across state lines. How else would Illinois know, for instance, that one of its drivers who is picked up for drunk driving, is a two-time offender in Ohio?

The other area in which interstate communications of drivers license information is common, concerns truckers. It is of interest, and a safety measure, to be able to check prior convictions for any moving violations when someone seeks to get a Class C (trucks, etc.) license in a new jurisdiction.

I doubt you quarrel the life-saving value of those two forms of interstate license information transfer. Today, when terrorists can run around the nation carrying drivers licenses from (sadly) my own state, North Carolina, do you doubt the need for information on ordinary licenses?

And have you considered the point that more accurate and honest state licenses will have certain fringe benefits? Less drunk drivers on the road. Less fake drivers licenses for any form of criminal. And, if picture ID is required to vote, less vote fraud.

This should have been done by the state legislators themselves, as I told a special, national committee of state legislators more than two years ago. I told them that if they didn't straighten out their own mess, the federal government would do it for them.

That is exactly what is happening. Your quarrel should be with your state legislators who have dropped the ball for two years.

Congressman Billybob

This a special post, not a column, "Columbia Journalism Review Still Doesn't Have a Clue About the Outing of Eason Jordan"

[Congressman Billybob]

I said from the get-go that the "Canada and Mexico" proposals "are dubious." My entire post was directed at cooperation between the states.

John / Billybob

[untrained skeptic]

"What this means is your most personal information like Social Security Number will be available anywhere in North America including the corrupt Mexican cop. This would be a bonanza for Identity Theft which has gotten prevalent within the last 5 years. In addition, there are no limitations what could be put in the databases besides motor vehicle related items. There was an amendment to HR418 which would have banned information related to citizens practicing their 1st, 2nd and 14th amendment rights but is was rejected."

The SSN part isn't going to fly. Using it for identification is prohibited by federal law, and this legislation doesn't change that.

[CORedneck]

Try to go to the DMV to renew your DL sometime and refuse to give them your SS#. No SS#, no license. This legislation also requires states to get the numbers as well and same with the DL parts that passed in the intel legislation in the 108th Congress.

The SSN part isn't going to fly. Using it for identification is prohibited by federal law, and this legislation doesn't change that.

[CORedneck]

Read the DLA in the given link, page 4, item 11. Jurisdiction is defined as any State or Territory of the United States, Province or Territory of Canada and any State or Federal District of the Republic of Mexico. It is there in B/W.

I have looked into traffic laws of a few Canadian Provinces such as Nova Scotia, New Brunswick and Prince Edward Island concerning vehicle equipment such as window tinting. I traveled there for vacation in Summer of 2003. I also looked into statutes concerning dealing with non-residents who get traffic violations. the laws mentioned that traffic violations received by non-residents are reported to other Canadian Provinces and US states. I have not looked at laws of the Mexican states.

I said from the get-go that the "Canada and Mexico" proposals "are dubious." My entire post was directed at cooperation between the states.

[Bikers4Bush]

No we don't have to share with them.

Our data will be worth something, there's will be worthless.

Remember who we're dealing with here.

[untrained skeptic]

No problem, I'll be doing so in the next few weeks. In Ohio you are not required to have your SSN on your drivers license.

Maybe I'm mistaken and it's Ohio law that prohibits requiring a SSN as a form of identification, but I don't think so.

[CORedneck]

You got the picture :)

As for unregistering Republican, my Congressman not only voted for the bill but he signed on as a co-sponsor. I sent several letters to him regarding this Driver License Agreement and my concerns. He could have used his influence to make changes to the legislation but chose not to. He replied that he supports ALL of the provisions and thinks they are ALL good ideas that should be made into law. In 2006, he will not get my vote ! In fact here in conservative Colorado Springs, our local paper had this editorial concerning this legislation and it is not favorable. They even mention the database sharing with Canada and Mexico

So now if you go to Mexico and some corrupt ass cop pulls you over and writes you all kinds of tickets , just because your American, even though you weren't breaking the law............ you'll have to come back to NJ and pay 5000 bucks in fines and points to suspension and get dropped by your insurance!?????!!? THIS IS MADNESS, there must be more to it, no one in their right mind would pass a law regarding this, if this is the case, I am unregistering Republican today. Make me financially vulernable to the poorest, most american hating people in the hemisphere?1!??!?!? you are out your mind. You try and take my lisence because of some BS in Mexico, and watch......

Ill be dead on the 10 o clock news shot by a cop because they will have to pry my keys from my cold dead hands.

[Bikers4Bush]

The OHIO dmv has your SS# attatched to your records but it is an option for you to have it displayed on your physical license.

You do have to show proof of ID to get a license, or a new one if you lose it, and an SS card is an acceptable form of that.

[untrained skeptic]

When we moved to a new address my wife was unable to update her information online because she does not have her SSN on her drivers license, and their online change process used your social security number.

She ended up going in and doing a change of address in person.

That makes me skeptical if your SSN is in the DL database if you exclude it from being displayed.

I'm having my SSN removed from my DL when I renew it which I will do shortly.

[Bikers4Bush]

Believe me, it's in there.

If you opt out of having it on your license they don't allow you to use it online. In other words, they're trying to make it a pain for you to opt out.

I personally don't have it diplayed on mine either and take my SS card with me each time I go in.

Keep in mind that DMV records are state records.

[untrained skeptic]

For when I travel across borders I have a passport. They can verify my passport is valid just fine without my SSN.

A SSN is used for tax purposes in the US. The Mexican government has no legitamate need for it.

US SSNs should not be showing up on any form of Mexican ID, we have no need for Mexico to have access to US SSNs.