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Toll to drive downtown? (San Francisco)
San Francisco Examiner ^ | 2/15/05 | Justin Nyberg

Posted on 02/15/2005 2:06:00 PM PST by Alissa

San Francisco would become the first city in the nation to charge drivers just for driving in its chronically congested downtown under a sure-to-be controversial proposal being aired today.

Supervisor Jake McGoldrick, chair of the San Francisco Transportation Authority, will ask the agency to study a downtown toll zone -- whereby drivers would need to purchase a daily pass to drive in The City's most congested streets -- as a potential solution to the Municipal Transportation Agency's woeful budget problems.

"The key issue here is if we can kill three birds with one stone -- relieve congestion, clean up the air, and give money to Muni -- we would have hit a home run," McGoldrick said.

Modeled on similar "congestion charging" zones in London, cameras would record license plates and tickets would be issued for motorists who failed to purchase a pass. The intent is for drivers to pick other routes, avoid coming downtown or switch to Muni, which would travel more efficiently in the faster flowing streets.

"When you have a situation where traffic is not moving, Muni is not moving," McGoldrick said. "If we are ever going to get Muni to move, we are going to have to get those cars out of there."

Traffic in downtown San Francisco streets has been an intractable problem since the day the Bay Bridge opened in 1936. Several downtown streets are consistently rated "F" by the Department of Parking and Traffic for low travel speeds at rush hour.

The study would determine the size of the toll zone, how much money it would generate and how much congestion it could eliminate.

McGoldrick's proposal comes at a politically opportune time, with Muni considering a controversial 25 cent raise in fares, and transit activists mounting an increasingly vocal campaign to shift Muni's budget difficulties away from the people who ride the buses.

Several long-term solutions to Muni's budget deficit have also been floated over the past few months, including the creation of a downtown "assessment district," which would essentially impose an additional tax on property owners. But that would have to be approved by two-thirds of the voters in that district and, if it were to pass, the money would not be seen for at least a year.

Additional longer term options include other taxes -- including an environmental impact fee for vehicles driving in The City; a local vehicle registration fee; an increase in the parking tax; a special parcel tax on properties within The City; and a local gas tax. All of those options would require approval by San Francisco voters, the Board of Supervisors or the California Legislature.

Sean Comey, spokesman for the American Automobile Association in San Francisco, said a downtown toll zone would unfairly punish commuters who can't take public transit. "I don't think its going to get too much further than concept," he said.

Lee Blitch, president of the San Francisco Chamber of Commerce, worried the extra expense and hassle to get to downtown could hurt business.

"We are trying to get out of the recession, but go back into it," Blitch said.


TOPICS: Government; US: California
KEYWORDS: 17miledrive; bayarea; foghornleghorn; itwouldbeworthit; notaboutterri; sanfrancisco; tollroads; tolls; tooseethatzoo; transportation
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To: Tacis
"But, in San Francisco, the devil is always in the details."

I'd support the concept except for the fact that it will not be equitably applied once the politicians begin carving out exceptions. As a former resident of San Francisco, I know that there is no way this concept would be limited to commercial only areas, as there are very few of these in the city. So they would extend the toll roads into mixed use areas, and then begin exempting certain residents from the tolls around their homes. Eventually, you will have a system complicated enough to invite corruption, and the system would get corrupted.

My second issue has to do with the costs to operate MUNI and BART. Will the fares for these services to and within the city be reduced to reflect the new source of revenue to subsidize these systems, or will the systems be improved substantially? There is no way that fares will be reduced as the public has already shown a tolerance for such amount, but I had to bring up the point. Also, I doubt that either MUNI or BART will see expansion of their service areas, nor will the volume of transit vehicles increase dramatically, so I don't see any significant improvement in service.

Therefore, this will simply be a windfall tax increase for San Francisco, and the Board of Supervisors will find creative ways to spend the revenue without significantly improving the traffic situation in the city. So, I'd have to oppose the plan if I still lived in San Francisco.
41 posted on 02/15/2005 3:09:47 PM PST by Poodlebrain
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To: scory
Wow, where in the city do you live and work? I have lived here since '91; North Beach, Nob Hill, Haight Ashbury and now a home in the Sunset. Always worked downtown at Market and Montgomery. Again in 14 years not a single problem. In North Beach I was out all of the time until late.
42 posted on 02/15/2005 3:09:50 PM PST by SF Republican
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To: SF Republican

I agree that SF is a beautiful city, physically. It's a very sick city, mentally. I moved from SF to Honolulu, which is equally a beautiful place with it's own problems. Today I live in San Antonio, which is not as beautiful, but for the most part mentally healthy.


43 posted on 02/15/2005 3:12:27 PM PST by Alissa
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To: Alissa

More soviet socialist smart growth for the Marxist common good - penalizing individuals by demanding a tribute for using their private property.

SF is run by thieving pirates.


44 posted on 02/15/2005 3:16:38 PM PST by sergeantdave (Smart growth is Marxist insects agitating for a collective hive.)
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To: Alissa
Liberals have long taxed you for the privilege of parking in downtown. Now liberals want to tax you for the privilege of driving in and around downtown. When it comes to extracting the maximum revenue from your wallet, let's just say its the one area they'll never run out of ideas. Especially in San Francisco.

Denny Crane: "There are two places to find the truth. First God and then Fox News."

45 posted on 02/15/2005 3:32:32 PM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: Alissa

If they could find a way to tax sodomy their problems would be at an end.


46 posted on 02/15/2005 3:46:34 PM PST by Mr Ramsbotham (Laws against sodomy are honored in the breech.)
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To: Alissa; Diddle E. Squat; deport; maui_hawaii; Ben Ficklin; zeugma; MeekOneGOP; Fiddlstix; ken21; ...

Ping!


47 posted on 02/15/2005 3:48:22 PM PST by Paleo Conservative (Hey! Hey! Ho! Ho! Andrew Heyward's got to go!)
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To: EagleUSA
""The key issue here is if we can kill three birds with one stone "

Brilliant leftie - rat thinking (no pun intended).....

And KILL all those mom and pop entrepreneurial businesses.

Where else could you kill four birds with one stone....!

48 posted on 02/15/2005 3:48:47 PM PST by spokeshave (Strategery + Schardenfreude = Stratenschardenfreudery)
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To: Mr Ramsbotham
"If they could find a way to tax sodomy their problems would be at an end."

Now I know there was no pun intended, wasn't there??:-)
49 posted on 02/15/2005 3:54:45 PM PST by NW Mike (Proud member of the VRWC since 1972 -- who the hell are you calling 'neo'?)
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To: SF Republican

My great great great gandfather helped found the city with general vallejo. I hate the city of urine.


50 posted on 02/15/2005 3:59:33 PM PST by Walkingfeather (q)
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To: NW Mike
Now I know there was no pun intended, wasn't there??:-)

Only in the tagline.

51 posted on 02/15/2005 4:15:28 PM PST by Mr Ramsbotham (Laws against sodomy are honored in the breech.)
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To: Walkingfeather
I hate the city of urine its okay now, we kicked Gen Vallejo out.
52 posted on 02/15/2005 4:15:58 PM PST by SF Republican
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To: Alissa

The feds will have to sign off on this as some of these streets are part of the national highway system, and there may be restrictions whether the city can charge tolls to drive on them. Also, the state of California would probably have to do the same.


53 posted on 02/15/2005 4:28:57 PM PST by rawhide
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To: Alissa

As a Texan, I'm all for San Francisco doing this, it only helps push more business relocations to TX.


54 posted on 02/15/2005 4:34:34 PM PST by Diddle E. Squat
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To: Owl_Eagle; HenryLeeII
"Although fear tends to sour the taste of their meat."

Hey, maybe that explains that strange culinary experience I had in Chinatown out there...

55 posted on 02/15/2005 4:46:22 PM PST by Sam's Army (No witty taglines currently come to mind)
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To: Diddle E. Squat
"As a Texan, I'm all for San Francisco doing this, it only helps push more business relocations to TX."

Don't worry, it won't happen. Once the California businesses see how blind Cintra is robbing the people of Texas, they find much "friendlier" states to relocate in.

(For those outside of Texas, Cintra is a private company that's being given a contract with monopoly-type protections to build a private toll road in Texas - and grab as much as our money as they can get. May God have mercy on us.)
56 posted on 02/15/2005 5:19:53 PM PST by BobL
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To: Alissa; mhx; charwel; dcbayarea; rogue yam; ßuddaßudd; risk; sasquatch; Gal.5:1; albee; ...
As a person who drives home from Redwood City to Downtown SF every, I'd rather wait a few minutes in gridlock than deal with being charged daily to drive downtown.

Oh, the wacky news from SF just doesn't stop. We're at critical mass here folks...


Click here for Bay Area News Pings!

57 posted on 02/15/2005 5:59:44 PM PST by Citizen James (Live Better, Work Harder)
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To: BobL

I see you're spamming your total BS again. Are you by chance Willie Green?


58 posted on 02/15/2005 6:03:00 PM PST by Diddle E. Squat
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To: SF Republican

I agree with you.......SF is not nearly as bad as their politics and bad press say it is....it is a great place to visit and hang out in and the tourist spots are very fun. Unless you are in the Castro, you see limited gay pride and some of the funnest restaurants are in North Beach....but of course, they get so much bad press I don't blame most of those unfamiliar with it to see it in that light....


59 posted on 02/15/2005 6:07:03 PM PST by NorCalRepub
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To: Alissa
When I lived in the area, all they asked us to do is "wear some flowers in your hair." That was a long time ago though.
60 posted on 02/15/2005 6:10:09 PM PST by blam
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