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To: Mad Dawgg

What you are arguing is what unions turned in to in some instances - not what they are to begin with. And your view of pricing is unrealistic. The market is supposed to decide those things, not you alone. You may think a job is worth 5.00 an hour to you. If the market says it's worth 7.00 an hour, then you either pay that, or don't do business. It may mean you have to raise your price; but, that's in your power to do within reason.. the market shapes that too. You may want 2.00 a loaf; but, that doesn't mean anyone is going to buy it at that. That is the reality. If you want cheap labor, you'll end up with cheap labor. You know it as well as I do - you get what you pay for.

You'll get no argument from me on your other example. If I work harder than the next guy, he doesn't deserve the raise I get. Nor should I be disowned by the union for working harder to help my boss produce more. And that does happen regularly in the UAW. I could probably list more abusive things than you have and in greater volume. I've seen it.
I know a guy that was docked a week's pay for picking up a monitor and moving it across a line less than 2 feet away.
The job of moving it was going to be held up by a full day because an electrician wasn't willing to come and move it, thus killing production at that station for a day. That is abuse.. any way you cut it.

That said, you are a third of the equation. You're workforce is a third and your client is the remaining third.
Each plays a role in you producing any product or service.
All have rights and expectations. Your take seems to be that only you have any rights in the matter. That isn't how this country works. Many things you say I can agree with. If you have someone who won't do the job, can them. Many businesses won't do that; but, then want to pay good workers nothing on the basis that the bad workers do nothing. Somehow, the good worker is supposed to suffer and make up for the loss of the work the bad worker isn't doing; but, the bad worker continues getting paid. And this isn't a rare happenstance.

Business does not have to be a war between employer and employee. But, it ends up being a war because there's always someone that thinks themselves more worthy of
consideration than the other - whether it is the worker or the employer. Both need to understand that neither is going anywhere without the other and then act accordingly. But that's what we're on about here, profit margin is more worthy of consideration than the defense of this country against attempts to subvert the economy.. that cannot stand.
If it takes a war to undo, the price paid will be a result of the greed of a few. Whatever one imagines the result will be to those few physically, their story for history will be one of Nero fiddling blindly.


435 posted on 02/15/2005 4:37:33 PM PST by Havoc (Reagan was right and so was McKinley. Down with free trade. Hang the traitors high)
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To: Havoc
"The market is supposed to decide those things, not you alone."

You misunderstand, I was speaking in the context of me deciding based on the needs to operate my business at a profit (market factors being included) My point was to illustrate I want to decide to set prices free of union and government tampering.

The point illustrates the Free market of labor and goods.

If I want to pay 5.00 bucks and you don't want to work there for that then you exercised your rights under free market laws. If I can't get anyone worth a damn to do the work at that price I have three choices raise the offer, do away with the job or do it myself. That same free market exists in the price of goods.

However whenever something is introduced to upset that Free market be it Minimum wages, government regulation, or tariffs/taxes then the market will seek to rebalance.

This is what has happend with outsourcing. We have weighed down business with unions, government regulation, etc. that we have literally made it cheaper to make some products on the opposite side of the world and still be able to ship them back here and make a profit.

More government regulation to fix what was caused by government regulation in the first place is the very definition of digging deeper in the hole you find yourself in.

437 posted on 02/15/2005 4:53:32 PM PST by Mad Dawgg (French: old Europe word meaning surrender)
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