Posted on 02/14/2005 1:42:47 PM PST by shanec
Edited on 02/14/2005 3:41:49 PM PST by Admin Moderator. [history]
Ummm, what's your point? We are already bankrupting ourselves with HSA boondoggles, and are no safer. Less, in the case of "first responders" using over-sensitive radiation meters. All of it, money down the drain.
It is important to note that there are three aspects to the Russian/Chinese fallout shelters.
1. Convince a potential attacker that Russia/China can survive an attack,
2. Convince the Russian/Chinese people that Russia/China can survive an attack,
3. Permit the Russian/Chinese government to play aggressively with their relatively weak hands.
The Russian/Chinese approach is to withhold information so markets cannot function, then complain that the ineffeciency of the market requires the government to command the diversion of resources based on the direction of (and to the benefit of) the elite. They may indeed be ready for one nuclear war, but it may not be the one that their enemy inflicts upon them. If there are any errors in their analysis, they will be very slow to react.
Rather than central planning, the US approach is freedom, to adapt to the circumstances as they exist, rather than have only a small elite able to make decisions. The US market would adapt to what ever damage, prices would direct repairs where necessary.
Our market has discounted the likelihood of nuclear war, and further discounted the likelihood of civil defense measures having useful effect. Rather than have separate stockpiles of food in the target zones, (a dumb way to do it) our system has large stockpiles of food as part of our normal operating system, and they get exchanged and rejuvenated (fifo inventory control) in the normal course of business.
No kidding. If there's a real nuclear event, you better hope to be wellll outside of the 5psi blast zone. About 4 miles for a 10 kiloton they are likely to have. Anyone inside there's gonna be toast even if they survive in the initial heat/blast.
I don't have any first hand knowledge with other Departments but Austin FD has both detectors for high and low levels of radiation. There are also training and procedures in place for the use of this equipment and mass decon.
The high level detectors are from the feds (old CD type in good working order) and I dont think we are the exception.
Bookmarked for later read, thanks.
VERY informative visualization.
I would encourage everyone to take a look. A nuclear blast in a city definitely does NOT mean the whole city is wrecked. It does mean a huge disaster, with thousands to tens of thousands of serious but non-fatal injuries.
It definitely highlights the fact that first responders will be needed, will be available, and that their performance will mean life or death for thousands, at least.
The man from the government who says he's here to help you is lying. He's here to help himself.
In August 1948, a Sunday evening, my family was driving back to Boston from Cape Cod. Walter Winchell was on the radio and announced the Russians had the bomb. His screed was pretty much the same as yours.
I was eight, his report scared the stuffing out of me and I was terrified of a nuclear holocaust. However, after ten years or so of air raid drills where we crawled under our desks at school, I kind of became numb to the whole notion of nuclear warfare.
The bomb exists. No one has used it because they knew, up front, we would drop a couple of thousand nukes on whoever did use it.
However, in the current climate, I would prefer that our government announce a very clear policy describing what would be the response to a nuclear terrorist attack on the United States. I believe that the mooslims should know Mecca and Medina would turn into glass if any of their jihad whackjobs should attack the United States, its territories or its allies with a nuke.
But I don't worry about nuclear war or attacks because it is totally out of my hands and your description of the hoorors has the same impact on me as Dr. Strangelove.
All commonplace misconceptions. Look at the blast radius diagrams on the site linked to in #28. Would one such bomb destroy one major metro area? 10? Would it take more like 20-100? Short of all-out thermonuclear war between the now non-existent full-strength arsenals of the U.S. and Soviet Union, there is no nuclear doomsday. Failure to care for the injured would be a travesty.
I'm the original author and though WND did edit this a tad, the basic theme is intact that the 'first responder' community has been pushed towards overly sensitive radiological instruments. This will someday be seen as a major tragic blunder when it unfolds live atop the emergency response to a future nuclear disaster. These instruments are better suited for interdiction, the discovering of a bomb before it has gone off, as they are totally unsuited for use in Civil Defense after a bomb has detonated and contaminated an area. These instruments pegged out at these low levels make it impossible to then determine whether the local intensity is a little above it's detectable range or 100 or 1,000 times more so. That could be the difference between a local population being safe to stay put for a month or needing to get out within minutes. First responders will be hard pressed then to determine which areas should shelter in-place, or most need evacuation first and even what the safest routes out are. They will be crippled to confidently enter, respond or direct anybody anywhere! This will be the 'big story' of the needless loss of life via the failed emergency response that'll erupt shortly after that day 'none will ever forget'.
BTW, this free guide is both worthwhile reading and bookmarking for when a future nuclear crisis is brewing...
- Shane
Notice that the graphic specifies a nominal yield of 10 kilotons, approximating the Hiroshima device. Also approximating a "manpad" aka suitcase nuke. Anything bigger is going to cause a much larger problem. For example say a terrorist group manages to buy a city-buster nuke from atop a mirv missile. Ukraine? Russian mob? 30-50 megatons is going to wreak total havoc. 50 million TONS of TNT? To put that in perspective, picture a rail car commonly used to transport coal, for example. Such a train full of 50 million TONS of explosive moving past a fixed point at 50mph will take EIGHT HOURS to go by. That's why they're refwerred to as city-busters. That's my nightmare scenario.
50 megatons is the size of the Tsar Bomba - the biggest thermonuclear device ever made. I don't think that size was ever turned into an actual weapon.
Thanks.
Sobering.
When are we going to sentence Dillbo and Shrillery Clinton to Leavenworth?
Ahhhh, when we do Scuba Kennedy.
Ahhhh, when h*ll freezes over?
Sigh.
Has there been any culture in history so officially suicidal?
A readily portable terrorist nuclear bomb would likely be only a fraction as powerful as the examples above, but for reference, the Hiroshima nuclear bomb was only a 15KT air burst. (The RA-115 backpack nukes reported missing from Russian stockpiles are one kiloton yield each.)
As noted above, blast effects drop off quickly with distance. At Hiroshima a brick building survived only 640 feet from ground zero. And less than a mile away a trolley car remained intact and on its tracks.
For concerns of a future Soviet attack, the current thinking is that with the continuing trend towards more accurate MIRV'ed (multiple, independently targetable, re-entry vehicles) nuclear weapons, they are now mostly smaller than in the past, averaging on the order of 500 KT or less and for submarines only 200 KT. Of course, there are now more warheads per missile (4-10) and they are substantially more accurate than during the height of the cold war. Also, any targeted military installations can expect to receive multiple hits.
Again, we are exploring here only the initial direct effects of a nuclear explosion, and specifically, the shock wave and blast effect. (Thermal Pulse effects will be covered below.)
All buildings will suffer light damage from the shock wave at even 1 psi peak overpressure--shattered windows, doors damaged or blown off hinges and interior partitions cracked. The maximum wind velocity would be only about 35 miles per hour. As the overpressure increases, so does the blast wind--exceeding hurricane velocities above about 2 psi.
So, how much blast or overpressure is too much to survive?
It, of course, depends on where you are when it comes charging through, but from a 500 KT blast, 2.2 miles away, it'll be arriving about 8 seconds after the detonation flash. (An even larger 1 MT blast, but 5 miles away, would give you about 20 seconds.)
Like surviving an imminent tornado, utilizing those essential seconds after the initial flash to 'duck & cover' could be the difference between life & death for many. Both the overpressure in the blast shock wave and the blast wind are important causes of casualties and damage.
...continued on www.radshelters4u.com
- Shane
That website is only representing a 10-kiloton weapon. The US and Russia both have many 300+ kiloton warheads. Big difference.
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