Posted on 02/14/2005 10:36:58 AM PST by Alouette
The Efrat Organization, dedicated to fighting unnecessary abortions, tells the story of a soldier who was saved by his friend - who himself had been saved before birth, in "unique" circumstances.
The Efrat organization, dedicated to preventing the #1 cause of death in Israel - abortion - continues to register successes. In the year 2004, Efrat saved the lives of 1,658 Jewish children in Israel, by providing social and financial support to mothers who had planned to abort for socio-economic and related reasons. The number of successes in 2003 was 1,448.
Recently, a story was publicized in a work entitled Aleinu L'Shabe'ach (We Must Praise) by Rabbi Zilberstein of Bnei Brak, son-in-law of Rabbi Yosef Shalom Elyashiv and the rabbinic advisor to the Maayanei HaYeshuah Hospital in Bnei Brak. Though the names have been changed, the facts are accurate, as testified to by more than one person. The incident occurred as follows:
Yoav, a young IDF soldier, was manning an isolated guard post in Hevron in the middle of the night when he was shot by an Arab sniper. With no one to help him, and unable to radio for help, it appeared that he would bleed to death before he could be found. Another soldier, however, did hear something. Not sure, he went to investigate, and spotted Yoav lying on the ground, bleeding profusely.
The soldier immediately began to administer first aid, and arranged for Yoav to be transported to a medical facility - applying manual pressure until the ambulance could arrive. Eventually, Yoav arrived and was treated at a proper medical facility. The doctors told his parents that had it not been for the immediate and appropriate actions of the other soldier, their son Yoav would definitely not have survived. It was indeed a miracle that the other soldier heard what no one else heard, the parents felt, and looked for him to thank him. But he had already left the hospital.
During Yoav's recovery period, his family called the army to find out the name of the soldier who had saved Yoav's life. No one knew. Finally, Yoav's parents put up a sign in the grocery store they own in Kiryat Malachi. They described the miracle that had occurred, and asked for information on the identity of Yoav's savior. "Israel is a small country," they thought, "and someone might know someone who knows someone, etc."
It took a year. A woman entered the store one day and saw the sign. She was positive that her son Doron had mentioned such an account. She took out her cellphone and called Doron on the spot. Sure enough, he remembered the incident quite well, and it was he who had saved Yoav's life.
Soon all the families gathered together for a joyful, tearful celebration - but one of the mothers knew that there was an extra reason to celebrate. Doron's mother pulled Yoav's mother aside and told her, "There is a specific reason why I came to your store today. You don't remember me, but twenty years ago, I was standing in your store feeling lost and forlorn. You and your wonderful husband noticed how sad I looked and asked me what was the matter. I explained that I was pregnant and was overwhelmed. There were so many unbearable difficulties, financially, socially and emotionally. I had decided that the only way out was to have an abortion.
"You both stopped everything, and calmly and lovingly sat with me. You listened to me. Then you offered so much encouragement and support. Because of you, everything began to look different and I chose to keep my baby. I no longer live around here, but I happened to be passing through and I figured it would be nice to visit your store again to thank you once again for all that you did for me. The name of that precious baby was Doron. My beloved Doron, who would not have been born were it not for you, grew up to save your son Yoav's life."
North Americans who want more information on how to help Efrat can call toll-free 1-800 273 4314.
You are wrong. Abortion is murder.
Kewl. Stopping cultural suicide.
The baby is innocent in the absolute. A killing in a war may or may not be just, but the casualty has lived and has accumulated some sin. To kill in an abortion is then a greater sin.
A mother had made a decision to get pregnant, or at least, to expose herself to a probability of pregnancy. With this comes the acceptance of risk associated with childbirth. The baby, to the contrary, had not assumed any risks. When (very rarely these days) a choice must be made, the surgeon may kill the baby only as an inintended and unavoidable side effect of protecting the life of the mother. In a wholly symmetrical case he should save the baby.
Because the Supreme Court, in its infinite wisdom (spit) insists, against all rationality, that the slaughter of the unborn is a Sacred Constitutional Right. In a sane country, armed police would shut down abortuaries.
This country is deeply schizophrenic.
When (very rarely these days) a choice must be made, the surgeon may kill the baby only as an inintended and unavoidable side effect of protecting the life of the mother. In a wholly symmetrical case he should save the baby.
Do you not see a contradiction in what you're suggesting? Why should the surgeon in an unavoidable circumstance sacrifice the life of the fetus for the sake of the mother? If, as you say, the mother has both lived and sinned, why should she be spared in favor of the "wholly innocent never-having sinned fetus?
You are misreading my post. The baby's life takes precedence. Do I need to rephrase #23?
I'm one of those women who had to choose between risking my own life or aborting my "fetus".
I had been told all my life that I should never have children because it would kill me or if I was fortunate enough to survive that my child would either die or be born with severe birth defects. To say that my pregnancy was difficult is an understatement. I spent a large part of it in the hospital. I had seizures during my first trimester. During my second trimester, the doctors were afraid that I would be blind by the end of my pregnancy. And during the third, they were afraid that my kidneys were going to shut down.
But I went through with it. I wanted my child to live so much that I was willing to die for her. I was very lucky. I made it through the pregnancy and gave birth to a healthy daughter who is 14 years old now. My life without her wouldn't be worth living.
If as you say, abortion is murder, does that include the first trimester? Should we convict and apply capital punishment to anyone who performs an abortion? Wouldn't the woman be an "accomplice to murder?"
Should abortion be outlawed? Yes, unless the mother's life is endangered. Is it murder? No.
And to that I say G-d bless you and your dear daughter. The sacrifice you made is heart-warming.
I'm just trying to point that it is hyperbole to call abortion murder. It is wrong, should be outlawed, but is not murder.
I'm afraid you're misreading your own post. You say that, and I will quote,"a choice must be made, the surgeon may kill the baby only as an unintended and unavoidable side effect of protecting the life of the mother."
If the mother has lived and sinned, why should she be protected. The baby, as you say, is completely sin-free.
There's a saying that when you save one life, it's as if you are saving the world.
This story illustrates that saying.
Mark
And this is in keeping with even the most orthodox of Jewish sects.
My Grandfather was Orthodox, and one Yom Kippur (a fast day, where no food or water is to be consumed, and one of the "High Holy Days") he became a bit dizzy. The Rabbi ordered my Grandfather to stop praying, to drink some water, and to rest a while (he was well into his 80's). After giving him some more water and a snack, the Rabbi drove my Grandfather home, which he would have never done. But it's a far greater sin to put your health in jeapordy than to blindly "follow the rules." That and the Rabbi would never have asked anyone else to break the rules of not working on Yom Kippur (by driving).
Mark
All life should be protected when possible, regardless of the state of sin. You posed an issue of so-called double effect, when saving the mother needs to bring about a death of the baby. Then, as in all such dillemmae, for the good (life of mother) to be pursued, the evil (death of the baby) must be unavoidable, unintended, and a side effect of the good. For example, a surgeon may do a procedure that carries risks for the baby if that is the only way to save the mother. He may not do the procedure where the baby is killed to make the procedure safer or more convenient, but the procedure is possible without killing the baby.
The surgeon also may not do the procedure if the death of the baby is certain, like I said before.
Thank you for your kind words. I really don't think it's necessary for us to argue about this. You said that you would like to see abortion outlawed and so would I. We may use different words to describe the procedure, but ultimately our desire is the same and that's what matters.
This is the position that halachah takes, but medical science has advanced to a stage where this situation can be avoided.
In the context of the "pro-choice" argument, this is a red herring. "Choice" is not the issue here. Theraputic abortions to save the mother's life were always performed legally even before Roe vs. Wade.
Once abortion is put back into it's proper place in the murder statutes, will you stop apologizing for abortionists?
Besides, to get the desired effect, all you would need to do is incarcerate a couple of hard-core abortionists and the rest would disperse and go out of business.
Yes
Should we convict and apply capital punishment to anyone who performs an abortion?
Yes (although I doubt the death penalty would ever be applied here.)
Wouldn't the woman be an "accomplice to murder?"
Yes
Should abortion be outlawed? Yes, unless the mother's life is endangered. Is it murder? No.
Every effort should always be made to protect both mom and baby until the baby can survive outside the womb. If a woman who is not healthy enough to have a baby becomes pregnant, she owes it to the child to continue the pregnancy as long as possible, even if it endangers her own life.
Tops Schindler by several hundred.
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