Posted on 02/12/2005 4:24:09 PM PST by snarks_when_bored
We'll be getting to that in due course. I'm working on it.
Indeed, the EM field might host the will to live - or it might be a vacuum field.
Physics accepts that there are probably massless particles which are currently beyond our ability to detect. But here we suggest that a vacuum field might be detectable because of either direct or indirect effects on biological life.
The reason we know neutrinos exist is because of such indirect measurements.
I would say that energy and matter transform - and are the effect of matrix (space/time) expansion (inflation).
When the Einstein dream of transmuting the base wood of matter to the pure marble of geometry is achieved then you will see the unification of the fields and "space/time = matter/energy".
IMHO, string theory (and particularly f-Theory) is getting us closer day by day - because the geometry is preeminent.
You mention a charlatan -- Uri G. -- and his ability to fool people. From an evolutionary standpoint, what is the function of charalatanism? Why, evolution-wise, are there lies and deceit?
Do you think that -- perhaps -- the universe has evolved some charlatan meta-genes? Using "meta-genes" to describe gene-like qualities to some combination of aspects of space time and physics. Or does only DNA evolve?
Following Heidegger's method and Husserl, I attempt to go back to etymological roots, back to Aristotle. Words have shifted meaning over the years, yet the original meaning is still there and we ought to stick to that chain of metonyms.
As for me, I shall try to stick with current, technical definitions where available - and try to remember that the same word may mean something different to you.
I find it amusing that we're discussing housing an entirely nebulous entity (the so called will to live) in an entirely hypothetical vacuum field. But I have no problem with it, any more than I mind you insisting that Helena is the capital of Ruritania.
Just don't call what you're doing science. And my advice would be to leave the EM field out of it, unless you are willing to discuss why the large EM fields that we enounter every day don't induce suicidal impulses
The calculation may have been "meticulous", but there obviously were some badly broken assumptions somewhere in this. DNA can address a phase space that is vastly larger than it actually addresses in biology. One could almost say that DNA is too information rich, but a lot of that extra space is used for error detection and correction in practice.
Just don't call what you're doing science.
For some, it is enough to observe the physical world from the visual, corporeal, four dimensional level. But for us, that does not satisfy.
We wonder why it is a certain way and not another, why it exists at all, what it is really made of, of what it is a part, where it came from, where it will lead.
To answer such questions concerning life (in particular here, biological life) - complexity [the issue on that thread, here it is the will to live] must be broached. Of course there are many mathematical tools to accomplish this - and different investigators are drawn to different toolboxes...
But such things are not of particular interest to everyone. So if you're not curious, then "no problemo"...
As evidence, here is an article comparing cosmologies. Please notice that all quantum cosmologies have a foot in the physically observable but otherwise are altogether speculative. The same could be said of string theory and a few decades ago, black hole theory.
Our investigation here has more than a single foothold, btw.
So if we stood next to a large external source of the EM field, like a radio transmitter; or if we accumulated a substantial electric charge, say by walking across a carpet in slippers, we would substantially corrupt 'biological self-organization and internal government'?
If I were convinced the EM field were essential to my self organization, I would particularly avoid MRIs. The combination of multi-Tesla static magnetic fields and kilowatt radiofrequency EM pulses are both far larger than any fields produced internal to the human body, and if such fields were vital, the MRI would be immediately fatal.
I suggest you stick to your 'vacuum field'. As long as no one can say what it is, no one can say why it's implausible.
I could be, but I don't think so.
Cosmology at least has some relation to the observable universe. 'Life fields' are the domain of spiritualists.
Cosmology at least has some relation to the observable universe. 'Life fields' are the domain of spiritualists.
There is as much if not more which suggests such a field as there is evidence for all of the various quantum cosmologies. betty boop and I are working on an article. We'll ping you to it. In the meantime, please stay tuned.
Monarch butterflies eat milkweed sap, which is poisonous to most other things. Most preditors avoid eating monarch butterflies.
There is another butterfly that looks almost like a monarch, but doesn't eat milkweed, and isn't poisonous or distasteful to preditors. Can you imagine any advantage to looking like a monarch?
You cannot, there are none. To try to do so is to slog through the muddy, rutted roads of Flanders towards the trenches and miss the turnoff to the fresh fields of the high plateau.
Come to think of it, that may be the entire point, tortoise: that DNA can "address" a phase space that is vastly larger than what gets expressed in or as "biology." (Sorry if I've modified your terms. From my point of view, the modification makes better sense.)
But does this tell us anything about how DNA acquires this capacity? Does it originate with DNA proper, or could it be the case that DNA (in addition to its basically "static" informational input to the living organism) mediates an "outside" information source as well; i.e., one of which it is not the cause?
How do we "model" a question like this so as to have hope of receiving a valid "answer?" Or do you expect the question is worthless?
LOLOL, Prof!!!! Ya nailed me: Voo-doo is what I do!!! (In my spare time.)
Seriously, Alamo-Girl and I are keenly interested in the matters presently under investigation, and so will not easily be chased away. We'll get our article up ASAP, and hope you will reply to our pings. I think it's safe to say we are both looking forward to the pleasure of your company.
On many terms, I would agree with you - but for instance, if a physicist enters the discussion and we are speaking of "matter" in other than the technical meaning, it will surely lead to recriminations.
Thank you for your reply!
I could be, but I don't think so.
Cosmology at least has some relation to the observable universe. 'Life fields' are the domain of spiritualists.
I wish I had time to get into here but I must leave and do some work this afternoon.
There is as much if not more which suggests such a field as there is evidence for all of the various quantum cosmologies. betty boop and I are working on an article. We'll ping you to it. In the meantime, please stay tuned.
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These days the police use infra red to track criminals at night. The images first showed up as science fiction in the Swartznegger movie called "The Preditor". But now, I've seen tv shows wherein the police will scan a wide area with the infra red gun and the you can see the glow of a man or a cat in the bush at night on the tv.
That's just heat.
Typically a living human will give off other kinds of stuff. For example there's an electrical charge a person has that shows up if you walk across a rug without lifting your feet. After a bit you can send a little lightning out your finger.
Patients in hospitals can have their hearts measured for heart beats--likely too there are high tech instruments around that can "hear" a heartbeat at a distance.
What about brain waves? There are tools in a hospital for scanning and measuring brain waves. These show the output of the brain plainly on a monitor. How far do these brain waves carry?
I have read books on hunting in which its been said that if you're hunting someone at night its best not to look directly at them as they can feel your stare. But everyone has had the experience of "feeling" someone was looking at them and turned to see someone looking at them. So what in the world was the other person's eyes or brain giving off that you sensed?
Oh yeah and then of course there is chemistry.
you: Come to think of it, that may be the entire point, tortoise: that DNA can "address" a phase space that is vastly larger than what gets expressed in or as "biology." (Sorry if I've modified your terms. From my point of view, the modification makes better sense.)
That is where your analysis is particularly fascinating to me, betty boop. Because it is not a phase plane but a phase space, the dimensional potential is huge. The Shannon theory is great, but dimensionally speaking it is grounded in spheres and not hypercubes.
So if the DNA is encoded for more than obvious 4D – then the appearance of randomness which is taken here to be deterministic chaos may be quite organized when seen as encoded for phase space hypercube communication.
Moreover, as you say, this would be very, very consistent with our suggestion that the will to live is field-like.
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