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Sub skipper to lose command
CNN ^ | 2/12/5 | Mike Mount

Posted on 02/11/2005 9:19:28 PM PST by SmithL

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The captain of a U.S. submarine that hit an undersea mountain last month in the western Pacific, killing one sailor and injuring 23 others, will be relieved of command, Pentagon officials said Friday.

Navy Cmdr. Kevin Mooney will not be charged with any crime and will not be court-martialed.

He received a nonjudicial punishment, most likely in the form of a letter of reprimand from his commander, this week, officials said. Such punishment typically ends an officer's career.

Mooney was reassigned pending an investigation after the severely damaged the USS San Francisco returned to its home port in Guam. Details of the investigation were not available.

(Excerpt) Read more at edition.cnn.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: admiralsmast; cdrmooney; fired; mast; mooney; scapegoat; ssn711; usn; usssanfrancisco
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To: SmithL

message to Captain McVay. all clear and no reason to zig zag with the Indianapolis


21 posted on 02/11/2005 10:46:03 PM PST by South Dakota
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To: 75thOVI

Navigation by Braille is rarely considered career-enhancing.


22 posted on 02/11/2005 10:48:34 PM PST by SmithL (Proud Submariner)
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To: rawhide; SmithL

there may be reasons we may never know why the Navy decided to do this.

Yeah, there's always reasons. However, a lot of them are just plain assinine. This skipper should be commended for his handling of the situation but that is not the Navy's way. There way is, an accident you are history. End of story.


23 posted on 02/11/2005 10:51:17 PM PST by taxesareforever
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To: taxesareforever

Perhaps the Navy brass just don't like skippers who happen to be unlucky.


24 posted on 02/11/2005 10:56:23 PM PST by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: taxesareforever; 75thOVI; rawhide; Arkansaw

As I pointed out on the other thread, CDR Mooney understood the rules of the game when he accepted command. I don't have to like it, but I can't say I'm surprised.


25 posted on 02/11/2005 10:57:01 PM PST by SmithL (Proud Submariner)
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To: SmithL
Been there, done that! It can be quite exhilarating at times. Going from Perth to Panama in 1980. By way of South of New Zealand. Very large blank areas of the chart. Random single lines of soundings with labels like "Royal Navy Survey 1853". We discovered the "Oh S(crap)T!" Sea Mount. At least that's how we labeled the BQN-17 trace. But you're right, taking soundings with the bow is generally considered a "Bad Thing." BTW SmithL, what boat(s)? Baton Rouge (689) and a couple of Boomers here.
26 posted on 02/11/2005 11:06:11 PM PST by 75thOVI (Any ship can be a submarine...............once!)
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To: SmithL

Sad to see it happen to a good man. Hope he doesn't think he's lost our respect.
Our military is the best ever. Possibly the core of a new greatest generation.


27 posted on 02/11/2005 11:43:02 PM PST by bayourod (Unless we get over 40% of the Hispanic vote in 2008, President Hillary will take all your guns away.)
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To: Doctor Stochastic

Perhaps the Navy brass just don't like skippers who happen to be unlucky.

No. For every action there is a reaction and in the case of the Navy it had better be very obvious and again, in this case, it is. Think Captain Bucher, USS Pueblo.


28 posted on 02/12/2005 12:27:16 AM PST by taxesareforever
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To: SmithL

Captain Mooney brought his boat home under their own power, and most of the crew survived after an accident that should have sent them down to join the likes of the Thresher and the Scorpion. That makes Mooney one of the good guys in my book, or ANY book, IMHO.


29 posted on 02/12/2005 2:33:21 AM PST by Mad Mammoth
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To: SmithL
They all get Purple Hearts, or at the very least Navy Crosses. So there's all that going for 'em and everything.
30 posted on 02/12/2005 2:40:56 AM PST by raygun
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To: Arkinsaw
Be perfect, or be cast out.

I was on the USS Dubuque and we were unrepping the USS Vincennes back in the 80's off the coast of South Korea.

My C.O. ordered an emergency break away because of the way the OOD on the Vincennes was driving the ship. To make a long story short there was a collision, it was the fault of the Vincennes bridge team, neither C.O. was relieved. Don't know about the bridge team on the Vicennes though.

31 posted on 02/12/2005 2:56:49 AM PST by Doofer
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To: All
You're out of your mind to post drivel like this. We have really really really super important things to discuss on this board. Don't bother us with willow 'o wispy stuff like this.

You could regain grace in the eyes of the community if you posted a real juicy crevo or Mary Mother of God post (or something). Come on man, where's your head (we don't have time for nonsense)?

32 posted on 02/12/2005 3:00:26 AM PST by raygun
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To: raygun

Sorry, but this did not happen while engaged in combat with the enemy, so no purple heart or Navy Cross for the crew.


33 posted on 02/12/2005 3:56:58 AM PST by deaconjim (Freep the world!)
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To: SmithL
As I pointed out on the other thread, CDR Mooney understood the rules of the game when he accepted command. I don't have to like it, but I can't say I'm surprised.

When I served on the CinCPacFlt staff, one common thread ran through the CO's punishment for a mishap. If he stood tall and knew that he was responsible for everything that happened on his ship, the punishment was generally fair. When he blamed it on the stupidity of his troops (which was generally the case), the book was thrown at him.

At USNA you are taught a telling phrase when you screw up. "No excuse, sir."

I have no idea what went on in both his message traffic or other correspondence, but he seems to be borderline, especially in view of the light punishment.

34 posted on 02/12/2005 4:14:07 AM PST by KeyWest
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To: Doohickey
you're right, this is probably the best outcome for the CDR. A letter of reprimand, is the lowest form of punishment out of a Mast. I received one while I was in, and it didn't deter my advancement. But then again I wasn't a CO I was a lowly SONAR LPO.

that being said I still maintain I'd go to sea with this CO at anytime!
35 posted on 02/12/2005 4:18:25 AM PST by Bottom_Gun (Crush depth dummy)
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To: Doohickey

Bummer. But I knew it was coming. As others have said, it may not seem fair, but is the Navy way.

And we know there's 3 ways to do things:
The right way
The wrong way
The Navy way


36 posted on 02/12/2005 4:34:41 AM PST by PogySailor (ET1/SS $10M Fuzz Buster Operator)
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To: 75thOVI; SmithL

The BQN-17! Man you make me feel old! I was the sonar officer who took the first BQN-17 to sea for trials. I bet you did'nt loose transmitter modules when someone pushed "lamp test" ;-)

As for taking CDR Mooney to Admirals mast. This was probably done to protect him from further, more serious charges because the Admiral liked him and thought he should be spared any further legal proceedings.

SEA STORY: One of our sailors did something really stupid, while drunk, in a shore patrol shack (involving one of those "penetration however slight ..." articles in the UCMJ). The shore patrol charged him, and he was going to face Courts Martial when we got back to the states. Real hard jail time could have resulted from that. Our Captain took him to mast on the way back, and protected him from further prosecution. Sure the sailor's career was ended, but he didn't have to face a public trial on what he had done, or go to jail.


37 posted on 02/12/2005 4:39:15 AM PST by SubMareener (Become a monthly donor! Free FreeRepublic.com from Quarterly FReepathons!)
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To: 75thOVI
Working in four part harmony, and full orchestration, put the Pig on the rocks.

One of the lessons I have taken from such incidents is that human screw-ups almost never seem to be random accident. After careful investigation you almost always end up with the conclusion that it was a deliberate premeditated conspiracy.

There are two reasons the CO got nailed. One, he should not have approached restricted water without having a look see in control. Two, he should have known that among that team there was no one with extrasensory common-sense. It is amazing how many officers you can put in one place, none of whom will step back and say this makes no sense.

38 posted on 02/12/2005 6:57:20 AM PST by AndyJackson
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To: 75thOVI

I was a Boomer Rider: Roosevelt(600), Washington(598), & Vallejo(658)


39 posted on 02/12/2005 7:32:49 AM PST by SmithL (Proud Submariner)
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To: 75thOVI; KeyWest; SmithL

The recent soundings in the area off Sumatra show that a massive ridge and canyon system in the area was created by the earthquake.

With the sea floor changing all the time due to geological upheavals, how can the Navy be sure that vast areas of the world's oceans remain as charted? My take is that this area wasn't even charted with any degree of accuracy.

Would forward sonar ranging have picked up the undersea mount? Is that SOP for subs when underway or are they supposed to maintain silence? Most of us non-Navy types would like to know something about standard procedures in subs and how they affected this accident for good or ill.


40 posted on 02/12/2005 7:34:38 AM PST by wildbill
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