Sounds like you need some of this:
Posted on 02/11/2005 10:55:36 AM PST by Jim Robinson
The shot heard around the Internet has been fired on FreeRepublic.com The owner Jim Robinson and his moderators have launched a sniper style purge against members that disagree with the President’s ‘guest worker’ amnesty or support more control of illegal immigration. Free Republic is an amazing tool for those looking for a good debate and news from around the country.
The problem for the administration of the site is that their creation is allowing the participants to learn that the Bush immigration record and plans are shockingly out of line with the views of most conservatives. The management’s answer to this conflict between the majority of conservatives and the influence of the White House on their Web site has become electronic executions and censorship.
Members and readers of Free Republic would be surprised to know that many members of their community have fallen silent on the discussions about illegal immigration lately because free speech is an illusion on FR.com. They are silent because they have been banned from the Web site without warning, cause, or explanation in most cases. For weeks the moderators have been suspending and banning new members that chimed in quickly on the immigration debates.
Now this trend has broadened as the first groups of long-term users were suspended or banned this past week. Although Robinson and his staff removed many members of the Free Republic community in the first few days of the purge, those that religiously support President Bush’s immigration plan, open borders and approve of public benefits for illegal aliens remain on the forum. Those that were banned were the members that wanted more done to control illegal immigration and a strict observance to the President’s Oath of Office.
What do you think he's not being up front about? He's said the current immigration laws don't reflect the economic reality and his solution is a guest worker program involving some type matching of employers unable to hire citizen with foreigners willing to take those jobs.
Other than that he hasn't really said much. When he says that family values don't end at the border I think he is referring to fact the Mexican laborers will continue to come as long as that is the only they can support their families.
I've discussed the issue with many of the same people here in Texas that Bush has (Senators, Congressmen, x-Gov, party leaders, business leaders, political consultants) and everyone sincerely believes that as long as we need them and they need to come here to support their families, there is no way we can stop it. Accept the reality and try to reform the laws to deal with it as best possible.
Those who believe that we can seal the borders aren't living in the real world.
The most active cheerleaders on this topic have flatly stated that any considerations of "Borders, Language, Culture" is an indication of Racism and Xenophobia and knuckledragging Neandthal thinking.
They have also flatly stated that they are comfortable with the government redistributing wealth from areas of the country not yet impacted by illegals to areas of the country that are, to cover social costs. In other words, the government growing and gaining powers from its own failures.
They actively advocate for increased immigration, illegal or otherwise, as a "solution" to the impending Social Security issues. In other words, the US, like Europe, needs tons of fresh new outsiders to prop up its own crippled social programs, and this is a good thing.
They welcome advocacy with regards to Hispanic groups such as La Raza and Mecha and MALDEF, and disdain advocacy such as F.A.I.R., even though F.A.I.R. is not ethno-centric in its concerns.
They are perfectly happy to consider any idea of a dominate culture in America being over-ruled or over-run by another culture. For them, culture = race, and any mention of maintaining "American" culture is inherently racist.
"Our only outside influence should be stopping people from coming into this country illegally, and sending the ones here illegally back to their own countries.
The revolution would instantly have over 10 million troops."
Uh huh. Sounds like you need to put on your tinfoil hat and go join Mr. Gheen over in his kooky corner where the Free Republic sore losers are hanging out. Let me show you the door. Don't let it hit you on the way out!
http://www.alipac.us/ftopict-244.html
We FReepers should be condemning:
1) terrorists;
2) Euro-weenies; and
3) the enemy within, i.e., leftists.
Instead, there are FReepers putting all their energy into attacking other FReepers who believe in upholding the laws of this Great Nation, and addressing the existing borders/immigration problem in ways that are lawful, fair to all legal immigrants, and mindful of our sovereignty and national security.
I can't say that popular opinion is for or against this issue.Most of the public, some 80% have little or no interest in this issue.
This debate is confined to the others, some of whom are directly affected and some who view it as a looming problem that needs to be addressed and are trying to find consensus.
I am trying to get a handle on another issue,the subject of the thread, that deals with the degradation of debate to improper accusations.
I want to be able to understand an recognize the problem so that it can be avoided in the future.
I don't think we are intentionally showing Mexican border jumpers any favoritism. If Nigeria were where Mexico is they would be the ones jumping the border.
I'm not aware that the guest worker program is limited to Mexicans. It would be more fair to European and Asian guest workers than the present system that favors Mexicans and Canadians.
Sounds like you need some of this:
You don't think Freepers condemn terrorists? What do we need to do? Start a poll to show you that 99.9% of Freepers condemn terrorists? Talk about stating the obvious. I think the issue here is that people that advocate strange things like cutting immigrants off from education and healh care and bashing our commander and chief need a new place to roost their demented and racists views.
Don't post that link here again.
Social services come into play because once here for a seasonal job they are stuck and often must find a way to dig in and wait for the jobs to return.
You are making good solid arguments in this discussion, but the facts of illegal immigration have evolved recently. Your contention regarding medical crossings may be true elsewhere, but not in Cochise County AZ. I have personal knowledge here, and the hospitals are being crushed by medical crossings. In a county the size (land mass) of the State of Connecticut, we have 5 hospitals. Only one has a maternity ward, and we have 16 beds. The others have had to close because of the payment default rate.
Many illegals are moving into the manufacturing sector and are not reliant on social services to tide them over as you suggest. However, when an employer finds out they are illegal and they get fired, they need those services. Again, personal knowledge, it's happening to my sister's company in Phoenix. They hire in good faith based on apparently valid documentation. Then the SSA tells them a social security number is bogus, and they fire the illegal.
On several occasions, my sister has had former (illegal) employees come to her to validate their employment history so that they can get, among other things, 'baby insurance'. Yep, that's right. "I want the insurance so I can have my baby, please tell the Department of Economic Security that I worked for you." And the AZ drivers' license the young lady handed my sister had a bogus name on it. I don't know how she paid for her baby, but it didn't happen based on employment with my sister's company.
Where were you between Spetember 11 2003 and today?
BUMP!
Excellent comments.
Tancredo's not alone anymore thankfully, there's a large pro-borders movement in the House and across the country and it's growing by the day.
CBP's priority mission is to keep terrorists out (not laborers) and they are doing it the best way they know how, which doesn't including misallocating funds for more guards to patrol the border. Doubling or even quadrupling the guards won't significantly stop border jumpers.
Agents in foreign airports, sea ports, patrolling coasts of Mexico, interior Mexican cities, the southern border of Mexico, etc... are more effective in stopping terrorists than more boots on the border.
I'll go along with their judgment on how best to allocate their assets.
Welcome to the debate, we need an honest and open discussion on this issue and the more that participate the better.
Wrong. First off, a guest worker program is not a registration program, and secondly only people who want you to know they are here will register.
Those that wish to remain anonymous will do so without impunity.
Yes it is Guadalupe and to the best of my knowledge, it's a product of the Reagan amnesty.
Please go back and read post #1 from Jim and wipe the egg off your face.
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