Posted on 02/11/2005 6:08:48 AM PST by Unam Sanctam
Carnical historically intends to make fun out of the governing class. For Americans who even know no criticism during the SOTU speech this must be strange, but it´s absolutely normal for Europeans and no special "anti-American" thing.
Oh I see... It is "Anti-American" hatred.. But let me think. If you watch w a Carnival Parade, e.g. in Mainz, you will see a lot of political figures from all around the world, but mostly German.
And I tell you something: Even if it was the most well-liked of the whole lot, you wouldn't see him depicted in any positive way. It is Carnival - it is not about telling others how great they are - it is about making fun of people.
I feel it is legitimate to make fun of political leaders, and I really hope, that people in America feel the same.
ROFL
For some reason, the Statue looks like Richard Nixon with boobs.
And no, I'm not offended by any of these. They're all idjits.
Give me a break. The Germans aren't making fun of "political leaders" generally, they're expressing their kneejerk hatred and demonization of the United States. Why is it that according to the Michael Moore-lionizing French and Germans, the United States is the source of everything bad in the world, unconscionably evil, always with nefarious motives, while a Saddam Hussein or an Iranian theocratic Ayatollah are perfectly acceptable? I have read the hatred spewed out in the German media for the past two years. It is utterly despicable and totally one-sided vilification of the United States. I'm sick of it. The Germans are neither allies nor friends.
This is not your governing class. It is an entire other country that the Germans are demonizing. The French and the Germans are obseessed with the United States. They cannot simply treat us as normal human beings, but must caricature us and ascribe evil motive no matter what, and any other dictator or violator of human rights gets a complete pass, particularly if they are anti-American -- witness the recent sucking up of Europe to Cuba, Iran, Venezuela. Your false statement and insult about "no criticism of the SOTU" just shows how Europeans just glibly malign the United States every time they get. There was plenty of criticism, most saying how dare the President impose democracy on others. Yeah, sure, allowing oppresssed peoples the right to vote to determine their own form and personnel of government -- what a dastardly evil thing that is!
It seems you haven't read my post. On a carinval parade everyone, who is known just a little bit is made fun of - and a lot of people over here know the USA, you see. Carinval is surely not a political statement and it does not represent any public opinion. In fact you'll see politicians over here applauding to really harsh "jokes" about themselves. But if you don't understand the point of Carinval, there is no point in discussing.
And it seems you haven't followed German media very closely. I trust, you will find opinions, which will rather match your own ones, if you care to look at conservative newspapers (which enjoy a very high reputation over here). But on the other hand you can pick out some leftist-newspaper and then yell at "anti-american germans". It is your choice.
"Americans were shocked when the Democrats murmured -- British Parliament-style -- during the President's state of the union." I was told that by another FReeper, and I believe him. This could never take place in Germany, where we are glad to distinguish between the representative and respected office of the Federal President and the not-so respected and extremely political office of the Federal Chancellor. We don´t pay that much respect to our leaders in Carnival, beginning with the Mayor and ending with the leader of the free world. So you feel offended when you look in the New York Times caricature of the day? I´ll give you a hint: free speech is also known in Europe since 1945.
They should be embarrassed about the poo protestors, or whatever they are or call themselves. I've heard of just about everything (EU farmers protesting with their tractors, etc), but what they have done recently is beyond the pale.
The info. on that weird protest/vandalism/sacrilege out of Germany recently was posted in recent threads. Unreal.
Different parliamentary protocol or practice does not mean lack of free speech. The American people don't hold parades with obscene effigies of Jacques Chirac or Gerhardt Schroeder. An enormous float is a much bigger effort than a newspaper caricature, and I just have to think of the level of hatred that would lead people to put all that effort into this symbol of hatred of America. And I don't see how anyone can say objectively that the two carnival floats shown do not demonstrate a hatred of the US, of Bush, of Christianity, and of any European politician who may agree with the US on anything (e.g., Christina Merkel in the float). It just seems to me that France and Germany are obsessed with the United States and constantly demonize it. Davids Medienkritik blog constantly has excerpts from the German media that say the most horrific things about the United States. And then one sees polls that the majority of Germans think that America is the most dangerous threat. I just think those are not the feelings that a true friend or ally would have. A true friend and ally would say, we know you think you are doing the right thing, but we don't think it is right for the following reasons. That's not what we get. We get that Bush and Rumsfeld are war criminals. That the war is all about capturing Iraqi oil. That Iraq was a paradise under Saddam, where kids flew kites as shown in Michael Moore's agitprop. That the United States is an aggressive occupier just like Hitler, not bringing liberation and democracy to an oppressed people. That Abu Ghraib, where there was non-systematic disgusting abuse (but not torture, violence or murder), is exactly the same as Auschwitz. That Bush is Hitler. That the US has no moral credibility as a German tried to argue to me here on Free Republic yesterday. I feel intensely betrayed by France and Germany claiming that the nature of the US is evil and immoral. I don't think it is right or justified, and will try not to think about those countries for a few days to keep a good disposition.
Well.. if all the information you get about Germany is from "David's Medienkritik" I suppose, one should not wonder about the one-sided and totally unreflected point of view you have got. I am sure you are familiar with the concept of getting your information from different sources and then make up your own opinion. Or at least I hope so. If not - try it.
Second of all you still have not understood the concept of Carnival. And honestly I said, I am tired to explain it again. It has absolutely nothing to do with hatred whatsoever. You will find far more rude floats about local politicians - it is not hatred it is jest, which is at the most tasteless.
And to you other points. I am sure, the number of Americans who support that opinion you pointed out is higher than the number of German citizens alltogether. And although I support US policy over most issues, I have to say, that the Bush administration did really not get out of its way to tell the public worldwide, why it was important to go to war in Iraq. That was the only major point, where there have been confronting views between Europe and the US, and I still can't see why there is a problem, that other countries had or have other views on this issue.
And comparing Abu Ghraib with Auschwitz would be a criminal offence here in Germany - so you better check your sources.
Davids Medienkritik cites from Spiegel, Stern, TAZ, Sueddeutsche Zeitung, Die Zeit, etc. I don't see how that is not representative of the German media.
Because as it seems it is very picky with its articles. They say themselves, that they only look for articles, which show Anti-Americanism in German media. So I guess you won't find any articles there, which show the US in a positive light.
It is the same, when you look into FR for US opinion on Germany or France - sometimes it sounds, as if you wanted to bomb these countries into oblivion. Yet somehow most Americans I met have a high opinion of Germany and France. And trust me - most Germans have a high opinion of the US. Perhaps you should try www.faz.net - there you may find a totally new outlook on German media. (The FAZ is one of the most respected newspapers in Germany.)
PS: A blog can never be representative of any media in a country, since the blogger is free to choose only articles which match his opinion.
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