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To: Michael81Dus; Schiller

Different parliamentary protocol or practice does not mean lack of free speech. The American people don't hold parades with obscene effigies of Jacques Chirac or Gerhardt Schroeder. An enormous float is a much bigger effort than a newspaper caricature, and I just have to think of the level of hatred that would lead people to put all that effort into this symbol of hatred of America. And I don't see how anyone can say objectively that the two carnival floats shown do not demonstrate a hatred of the US, of Bush, of Christianity, and of any European politician who may agree with the US on anything (e.g., Christina Merkel in the float). It just seems to me that France and Germany are obsessed with the United States and constantly demonize it. Davids Medienkritik blog constantly has excerpts from the German media that say the most horrific things about the United States. And then one sees polls that the majority of Germans think that America is the most dangerous threat. I just think those are not the feelings that a true friend or ally would have. A true friend and ally would say, we know you think you are doing the right thing, but we don't think it is right for the following reasons. That's not what we get. We get that Bush and Rumsfeld are war criminals. That the war is all about capturing Iraqi oil. That Iraq was a paradise under Saddam, where kids flew kites as shown in Michael Moore's agitprop. That the United States is an aggressive occupier just like Hitler, not bringing liberation and democracy to an oppressed people. That Abu Ghraib, where there was non-systematic disgusting abuse (but not torture, violence or murder), is exactly the same as Auschwitz. That Bush is Hitler. That the US has no moral credibility as a German tried to argue to me here on Free Republic yesterday. I feel intensely betrayed by France and Germany claiming that the nature of the US is evil and immoral. I don't think it is right or justified, and will try not to think about those countries for a few days to keep a good disposition.


29 posted on 02/11/2005 3:01:50 PM PST by Unam Sanctam
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To: Unam Sanctam

Well.. if all the information you get about Germany is from "David's Medienkritik" I suppose, one should not wonder about the one-sided and totally unreflected point of view you have got. I am sure you are familiar with the concept of getting your information from different sources and then make up your own opinion. Or at least I hope so. If not - try it.
Second of all you still have not understood the concept of Carnival. And honestly I said, I am tired to explain it again. It has absolutely nothing to do with hatred whatsoever. You will find far more rude floats about local politicians - it is not hatred it is jest, which is at the most tasteless.

And to you other points. I am sure, the number of Americans who support that opinion you pointed out is higher than the number of German citizens alltogether. And although I support US policy over most issues, I have to say, that the Bush administration did really not get out of its way to tell the public worldwide, why it was important to go to war in Iraq. That was the only major point, where there have been confronting views between Europe and the US, and I still can't see why there is a problem, that other countries had or have other views on this issue.
And comparing Abu Ghraib with Auschwitz would be a criminal offence here in Germany - so you better check your sources.


30 posted on 02/11/2005 10:52:22 PM PST by Schiller
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