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We are the final frontier
The Guardian ^ | 2/10/05

Posted on 02/10/2005 6:21:42 AM PST by Valin

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To: Valin
"The big question is why these revolutions don't make us profoundly sad. We're reduced to bags of chemicals with no free will, living on a normal planet, but people still find that exciting," says Ramachandran. "I think it's because with greater understanding, we see ourselves as part of some grander scheme. We're part of something larger than ourselves and once we identify with that, it is not degrading, it's ennobling."

His great revelation is essentially a lie, and the common man knows it. All the revelations they cite are not so reality shaking as they believe. Knowledge, in and of itself is only as powerful as its use. It wasn't until the space program ramped up that the heliocentric model began to have an everyday effect on people, and even now that is rather limited.

It amazes me that scientists can not shake themselves free of the linear extrapolation when modeling the future. History is full of discontinuities that can only be seen in hindsight, much less explained.

These goofs projecting a computer with the power of the human brain make me think they know no more about computing than the average journalist.

The architecture of our brains is radically different from computer architecture. It is like comparing the horsepower of a tractor to the horsepower of a formula one racer and deciding to use the formula one to plow your field.

21 posted on 02/10/2005 9:48:46 AM PST by hopespringseternal
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To: Valin
Working around scientists for most of my life, here is some of what they are talking about today for what the not-too-distant future holds:

Convergence of info, bio and nanotechnologies yielding 'protolife' artifacts.

Computationally-tractable solutions to protein folding, leading to genomic simulation and a practical basis for constructive organic (i.e. genetic) engineering.

Experientially confirmed theoretical basis for unification of quantum theory and gravity yielding a full-spectrum cosmology.

3D connection-dominated computing substrates (nanowires + molecular assemblies) yielding (virtual) petaflops.

22 posted on 02/10/2005 9:49:40 AM PST by ZeitgeistSurfer
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To: ASA Vet
This thread will be hijacked by post 6.

I think you were predicted by Nostradamus to make this prediction..

Well done.. right on the mark..

23 posted on 02/10/2005 9:52:23 AM PST by Drammach (Freedom; not just a job, it's an adventure..)
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To: Dimensio
we share the same physiological traits and there is no chemical difference in human and animal physical makeup -- just different DNA

Bruce Lipton--cells are very similar whether animal or human. Cells function well under denucleation--without DNA--for a considerable time. Our entire bodies are a community of individual cells--the next level of fractal organization of the same thing. 50 trillion cells in a community act as a single cell, no more, no less.

24 posted on 02/10/2005 9:56:26 AM PST by RightWhale (Please correct if cosmic balance requires.)
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To: Valin
Creativity? No.. Emotion ? No.. Survival Instinct ? Emulation maybe.. but unless we program it in, NO...

Such machines will be able to make calculations faster, solving problems in less time than it takes humans to think them up..
They will be able to take available information and shuffle it around, determine the results, and possibly, decide whether those results are "useful"..
They will be able to build on the information we give them, check most of it for accuracy or reliability, and build on it to obtain more information..

They will be able to handle very large amounts of information.. and access it quickly...
They "may" be able to consider the consequences of their actions, maybe not..
They won't "care" unless we teach them what to care about..

It will always be "data" to be manipulated in order to achieve the desired results, within whatever constraints we put upon them..
And if we're smart, we'll put constraints upon them.. or teach them to "learn" what the proper constraints are.. or should be..

We are more than a "computational model"..
While we can be "emulated", we cannot be duplicated..
I don't think any machine would ever have conceived of religion.. They will never understand it, and will probably never adhere to a religious belief of any kind..
I'm not sure machines would have ever developed Philosophy.. and I'm not sure they will ever find a "use" for it..
I doubt they will ever place value on human life.. or any life for that matter.. Except as "material".. Something of use...

Our artificial "descendants" may outstrip us physically, even mentally, as far as the "real" world is concerned..
They will probably be the ones to actually explore the universe, maybe even other dimensions, places we could never go and survive..
They may be able to figure out a way for us to tag along.. I sort of hope so..
I think they will find out they need us..

To tell them what it all means..

25 posted on 02/10/2005 10:30:47 AM PST by Drammach (Freedom; not just a job, it's an adventure..)
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To: taxed2death

Damn. You set that up, didn't you?


26 posted on 02/10/2005 11:48:55 AM PST by Junior (FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC)
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To: HankReardon

Are we vegetables or minerals?


27 posted on 02/10/2005 11:51:30 AM PST by Junior (FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC)
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To: Junior
Are we not men?

We are DEVO..

28 posted on 02/10/2005 12:00:09 PM PST by Drammach (Freedom; not just a job, it's an adventure..)
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To: RightWhale
50 trillion cells in a community act as a single cell, no more, no less.

Not sure I agree-- if those are denucleated cells, as I thought I saw you post on another thread, then they do fine until they need to repair themselves (fall down & scrape your knee, anyone?)

if those are nucleated cells, they don't always do so well once you start smoking cigarettes :-0

Cheers!

29 posted on 02/10/2005 12:19:06 PM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: Valin
We will see a melding of man and machine, she says, leading to the demise of the individual.

This has got to be the most ridiculous statement I've ever heard.

I believe that the melding of brain and machine will lead to the ultimateage of the individual, able to manipulate our environment in every way we can dream of and a billion ways that we can't.

Why in the world would we build a machine that can take over? Would we build a car that can take over? That can forage on its own for fuel and spare parts?

I believe that we'll build superior machines that will work in concert with our natural intelligence.

Just IMHO of course :)

Godspeed

30 posted on 02/10/2005 12:25:51 PM PST by America's Resolve (awarforeurabia.blogspot.com - Watching the war for Europe)
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To: HankReardon
Please spare me the humans are animals lecture, it's ridiculous.

Well, basically humans are another TYPE of animal. I don't see that that's all that we HAVE to be though.

God-given human intelligence makes all the difference and WILL make all the difference IMHO.

People like to look at today like it's the end of science and human achievement, but I tend to think that it's only the beginning, well, the discovery and utilization of the scientific method was the beginning, we're a step or two into the fantastic human future now.

Godspeed

31 posted on 02/10/2005 12:33:38 PM PST by America's Resolve (awarforeurabia.blogspot.com - Watching the war for Europe)
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To: Junior

It's Junior! Hey, humans are humans, children of God. Not vegtables, minerals, animals, gases, isotopes......


32 posted on 02/10/2005 12:44:40 PM PST by HankReardon
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To: HankReardon

And yet, physically, we share all the characteristics of animals. Indeed, a lot of the stuff that affects animals (medicines, diseases, environment) also affect human beings. Go figure.


33 posted on 02/10/2005 12:53:29 PM PST by Junior (FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC)
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To: grey_whiskers

There is another part of the new view. The environment is us. We are the environment, or a kind of mirror image. Crud up the environment and it comes right back on you.


34 posted on 02/10/2005 1:19:19 PM PST by RightWhale (Please correct if cosmic balance requires.)
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To: Junior

That's right! But to call a human an animal? Go ahead, but I wouldn't.


35 posted on 02/10/2005 1:27:59 PM PST by HankReardon
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To: HankReardon

And we're also mammals. You got a problem with that one?


36 posted on 02/10/2005 1:40:16 PM PST by BMCDA
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To: BMCDA

We are also vertabrates. The point is what? Humankind have the mechanisms and biological make up as animals do. But we are human, they are animals. We are able to have Faith, animals, plants, minerals cannot. That's how I think. It's really okay for me to think this way.


37 posted on 02/10/2005 3:56:37 PM PST by HankReardon
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To: HankReardon
Please spare me the humans are animals lecture, it's ridiculous.

Yeah, everyone knows humans are vegetables.

38 posted on 02/11/2005 12:37:47 PM PST by jennyp (WHAT I'M READING NOW: Professional NT Services by Miller)
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To: Junior
Are we vegetables or minerals?

<sigh> gotta read thru the thread before posting. gotta read thru the thread before posting. gotta read thru the thread before posting. gotta read thru the thread before posting. gotta read thru the thread before posting...

39 posted on 02/11/2005 12:41:21 PM PST by jennyp (WHAT I'M READING NOW: Professional NT Services by Miller)
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To: HankReardon
But we are human, they are animals. We are able to have Faith, animals, plants, minerals cannot.

What makes having faith such an important distinction? Even if it is an advantage for humans, there are other animals that have various advantages over humans.

Sorry, we're a bunch of hairless great apes.

40 posted on 02/11/2005 12:44:02 PM PST by Modernman (What is moral is what you feel good after. - Ernest Hemingway)
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