Woman who killed baby ordered sterilized

Atlanta Journal ^ | 02/09/05 | Tom Opdyke

[fr_freak]

This approach does not involve the government deciding who can or cannot have children, until AFTER someone has had a child and killed or severely abused it. I have no problem with the government deciding that people who have done such things can't be allowed to have any more children. And the death penalty obviously would also have the effect of the governemnt preventing her from having any more children.

The government has already assumed far too many powers not assigned it by the Constitution, so the last thing I want to see is it assuming the power to decide who can and cannot have children. This would set a precedent. Sterilization now for people who murder their babies, sterilization in 30 years for people who break the speed limit, and sterilization in 50 years for whomever the government damn well decides. If you scoff at that notion, just remember the evolution of the federal income tax system, asset forfeiture laws, etc, to see how the government incrementally moves toward totalitarianism.

Besides, this woman would be effectively sterilized if she had just been given the punishment she deserves: long-term imprisonment (at least until after menopause) or death.

[hellinahandcart]

but this probably could have been avoided if she had access to birth control information, sterilization information before she conceived AND and abortion afterwards if she did not want a child....

What makes you think a 28-year-old woman didn't have access to birth control information, sterilization information, or even abortion itself (which is legal whether I like it or not) in 1998?

You're not assuming she might have been ignorant of all those things because she is a black woman, are you? Because that would make you a big old racist.

Why doesn't anyone state the obvious, an abortion would have had an entirely different result for both lives.

No, it would have made a difference in only one life. The baby would still be dead.

Adoption, if the woman truly didn't want to be a mother, now that would have made a difference in both lives.

Refraining from battering an infant would have resulted in a better outcome for both as well. The woman is responsible for all her choices and actions. And she is getting off VERY EASY here!

[peacebaby]

see my reply #59.

How do you feel about it?

[Lorianne]

Fine with me if they are taking care of their kids.

PS. Welfare to kids is counted as separate than welfare to adults. It's not lumped in together. So, both parents are responsible for their kids receiving welfare (in lieu of parental financial support).

[mountaineer]

Judges cannot order people sterilized. ... I hate to see the government deciding who can and cannot have children.

You're right, judges cannot order a person sterilized, but this judge has given her a choice. She either gets sterilized and gets probation, or chooses NOT to undergo the procedure and faces a murder trial. It's up to her.

[peacebaby]

These abortion arguments get so heated up. I hate getting into them, but I'm going to side with Maryivf on some things:

Who knows what this woman's life is like.

And before everyone on this thread goes jumping on maryivf or me, take a moment to think this:

Do not judge lest ye be judged. and then, He who is without sin can cast the first stone.

Aborting a fetus in the first two or three weeks does not cause the fetus any pain. Just think of the pain that 5 week old baby felt that an abortion in the first few weeks would have avoided.

please note I don't agree with government funded abortions and I don't agree iwth partial birth abortions. I ve been through these arguments with a bunch of irate freepers already.

[Lorianne]

I notice you don't mention sterilizing men.

[hellinahandcart]

Just think of the pain that 5 week old baby felt that an abortion in the first few weeks would have avoided.

I wish you could read your own sentence and really SEE what you've just said. One day it will hit you like a ton of bricks, and you will be so ashamed.

I've been there, and I feel for you in advance.

[Irish Rose]

"I'm just playing devils advocate right now so don't destroy me and don't take this as a personal attack ;)"

I promise not to do either. :)

"You seem to be okay with the government deciding who lives and dies"

Well, kind of. That is, I believe the government has the right to take life for two reasons: in defense of its citizens, waging war against nations and terrorists who mean to kill Americans, and as a matter of justice. I don't buy anti-death penalty talk about executing the murderer not making the murder right. The government doesn't punish murder to make anything right. It punishes murder to administer justice. It is perfectly fair (and completely fitting) for the government to say to a killer, "You took the life of a human being; therefore, we take your life. Blindfold?"

"but not okay with [the government deciding] who can have children or not"

No, I'm not. That's not the government's place--and the judiciary, especially, should not be issuing orders to sterilize someone. People have a right to reproduce. They do not have a right to kill or abuse their offspring. Can't the government punish them for the latter without taking away the former?

"I see a big difference between telling everyone you can only have x amount of y children vs telling someone convicted of murder you can't have any more children."

Agreed, there is a huge difference. My solution, however, is: Execute people convicted of murder. That solves the problem, without the government getting into the habit of sterilizing people.

[peacebaby]

sorry, I don't SEE what you evidently see.

That 5 week old baby suffered great pain! A two or three week fetus doesn't suffer pain during an abortion.

[GraniteStateConservative]

Sterilized means "killed slowly", right?

[LarkNeelie]

Your solution only changes the timing of the child's murder. Information doesn't change sheer evil. What you said.

[peacebaby]

So, seamole, you are without sin, I see. Lucky you. Perfect. No problems, you. Must be nice.

As for me, I've been through hell. I know what a personal hell is like, and I grieve for another woman's hell.

as far as your statement that the the science on a two or three weeks fetus feeling pain is not proven, nor it is proven that they DO feel pain, which is ya'lls argument.

[freepatriot32]

thats a good first step.But as my best friend found out a few years ago you can still get pregnant even after a tubal ligation.They have a tendancy to reverse themselves especially if you are athletic or get it done at an hmo the only way to totally avoid pregnancy is removing the womb through a hysterectomy wich is what his woman needs to have done to her right before she is strapped down to the gerny and lethally injected.