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BUSH BACKPEDALING ON AMNESTY?
Michelle Malkin ^ | Feb. 09, 2005 | Michelle Malkin

Posted on 02/09/2005 9:00:18 AM PST by JustAnotherSavage

BUSH BACKPEDALING ON AMNESTY? By Michelle Malkin · February 09, 2005 04:31 AM

At The Tar Pit, Sabertooth thinks President Bush may be backing down on amnesty. That speculation is based on Rep. Tom DeLay's statement in this New York Times article:

WASHINGTON, Feb. 8 - Representative Tom DeLay of Texas, the House majority leader, said Tuesday that conservatives might be able to compromise with President Bush on his proposal allowing illegal immigrants to work in the United States legally.

Such a compromise could entail, for example, requiring illegal immigrants to return to their native countries to apply for the program, Mr. DeLay said.

Mr. DeLay said he talked recently with the president, who has advocated a guest worker program that would be open to workers who are currently in the country illegally as well as to newcomers.

"He doesn't discount the notion, for instance, that you have to apply for it in your country of origin," Mr. DeLay said of the president. "He thought that was a great idea."

Lots of other good stuff at The Tar Pit, including this post about an effort by Sens. John McCain and Larry Craig to thwart Rep. James Sensenbrenner's proposed legislation for federal standards for state drivers licenses. http://thetarpit.blogspot.com/2005/02/could-bush-blink-on-amnesty.html


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: aliens; amnesty; borders; bush; bushamnesty; delay; dhs; illegalaliens; immigration; immigrationplan; laws; michellemalkin; presidentbush
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To: bayourod
You've been challenged several times to back up your smears. You've failed (i.e., wimped out) every time.
361 posted on 02/10/2005 8:42:01 AM PST by inquest (FTAA delenda est)
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To: Torie

LOL, I used no such inflammatory comments. Just made a request that if they want to be here to do it legally. I guess if that is inflammatory, I don't know what to say.


362 posted on 02/10/2005 8:56:34 AM PST by television is just wrong (Our sympathies are misguided with illegal aliens...)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
The problem with the whole "Army at the borders" thing, is that they would be there forever.

Fine. We've been on the Korean border 50+ years.

It's time we guarded our own borders. Let Korea & Germany safeguard themselves.

363 posted on 02/10/2005 9:19:50 AM PST by citizen (Yo W! Read my lips: No Amnistia by any name!)
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To: Luis Gonzalez; Willie Green; DoughtyOne; Marine Inspector; FITZ
Your statement: "Illegal immigrants already in the United States can only apply for the temporary worker program if they already have a job. The special status would last for three years and could be renewed once, for a total stay of six years. If temporary workers failed to stay employed or broke the law, they would be sent home."

Your tagline: "Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is."

Great tagline...that is my motto too. We're going to use it here as a guideline in answering a couple questions I have.

Lets look at an excerpt from a Willie Green post the other day on an illegal homicide hit and run...


"Thornton investigators spent months tracking down the suspect and finally arrested 33-year-old Roberto Martinez-Ruiz. His photo has not released pending witness identification.

But 7NEWS Investigators have found that since 1996, Martinez-Ruiz used six different aliases, had arrests for driving under the influence, failure to appear in court, probation violation, careless driving, driving with a revoked license, and hit and run. He has spent time in jail and in 2000, his license was revoked for five years.

"How could he possibly escape justice this many times and put out on the street where he was able to kill Justin? I mean, we were outraged," Vizzi said.

Martinez-Ruiz is also an illegal immigrant who used phony documents. And despite all the arrests, time in jail, and appearances in court, 7NEWS has confirmed that no local law enforcement agency, prosecutor or judge ever contacted federal immigration officials in Denver to have him deported.

"You should be accountable for what you've done to the system here, and then you should go back to where you came from so that you're not going to commit additional crimes here," said Bob Grant, a recently retired Adams County district attorney who now heads the State District Attorney's Council.

Martinez-Ruiz was arrested in Grant's jurisdiction but since he never committed a violent crime, no one ever bothered to inform immigration officials.

"Frankly, I don't think a lot of people are checking real hard on things like traffic tickets simply because the resources would not allow them to deal with all the people who confront the system and are not legal," Grant said.

"Anybody who goes in the court system, we should be getting contact on that," said Jeff Copp, the agent in charge of Immigration and Customs Enforcement or ICE.

He estimates there are now more than 10,000 illegal immigrants in Colorado. Even though the majority have no criminal records, he said he understands why Goodman's family is so upset.

"I'm deeply sorry. He should have been under our radar screen. We should have been contacted by state and locals with the rap sheet this guy has, and I don't know why we haven't had contact with him before," Copp said.

But even if ICE had been contacted, Martinez-Ruiz is only one of hundreds of illegal immigrants in the state who had committed nonviolent crimes. There are not enough agents to find and arrest them, or jail facilities to hold them.

Copp said that if he had the resources, he could easily go out and pick up 100 people whom he knew are illegal.

"We just don't have the space for them," Copp said."



Your statement to Doughty One..."That's a plan Ron."

Now.... explain the PLAN to me.

Explain how the present border security and enforcement is strengthened with your guest worker plan. In particular, explain how you would accomplish "If temporary workers failed to stay employed or broke the law, they would be sent home." using the present system of border security and enforcement.

Explain in our present system, what would stop illegals from sneaking in, without a job, and collecting benefits outside of the guest worker system.

Does your plan include cutting off ALL social and health services provided by state ,local, and federal agencies to illegals, as they currently stand, similar to Arizona's prop 200? Do the sponsering companies pay the health costs for illegals under the plan?

Are you personally in favor of Prop 200?

Would you be in favor of a guest worker bill if only laborers themselves were allowed into this country, NOT their families and dependents as well?
364 posted on 02/10/2005 9:25:57 AM PST by Dat Mon (will work for clever tagline)
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To: hchutch
You're instead purusing policies based on pie-in-the-sky thinking that is done in the name of "rule of law", but will only continue the patently unaccpetable status quo rather than solve the problem.

Tactic #1 within the Anti-Bush Caucus. (ABPAC)

365 posted on 02/10/2005 11:20:20 AM PST by PRND21
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To: hchutch

The loudmouths whine incessantly about the supposed millions of dollars illegal immigration costs society, and never say a word about the tens of billions of dollars which Me-ocratic moral-liberalism costs us each and every year.


366 posted on 02/10/2005 12:12:20 PM PST by Cultural Jihad
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To: Cultural Jihad; hchutch
never say a word about the tens of billions of dollars which Me-ocratic moral-liberalism costs us each and every year.

If I recall correctly, hutch is libertarian on domestic social issues. Try not to alienate another ally.

367 posted on 02/10/2005 2:42:27 PM PST by jmc813 (The Supreme Court is worthless. Sorry Terri.)
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To: jmc813

I'm generally libertarian, but I am pro-life and oppose gay marriage.


368 posted on 02/10/2005 2:52:30 PM PST by hchutch (A pro-artificial turf, pro-designated hitter baseball fan.)
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To: hchutch
I'm generally libertarian, but I am pro-life and oppose gay marriage.

Being pro-life is a very (small-l) libertarian position to take and I agree with it. As far as gays, I think the states should decide on it. Quite frankly, I could care less who f#&%s who.

369 posted on 02/10/2005 2:57:33 PM PST by jmc813 (The Supreme Court is worthless. Sorry Terri.)
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To: DoughtyOne
Any person that has to ask if I want people on the border to use deadly force as a first option is definate covered by your tagline.

That's a nice non-answer.

370 posted on 02/10/2005 3:54:54 PM PST by Poohbah (God must love fools. He makes so many of them...)
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To: inquest; hchutch
Was everyone who supported military action against Iraq required to state the number of troops and the rules of engagement and all the other military details involved?

Yes. And there was a great deal of argument about all those details before and after the war.

Now, it's curious as hell that the "put the military on the border" folks are so damn cagey, especially when there's an issue with the Posse Comitatus Act, as well as this mission not being likely to actually succeed over the long term.

If this is an invasion, it is an act of war. Fighting a purely defensive war ultimately means ceding the initiative to the enemy. Ceding the initiative to the enemy ultimately means defeat.

371 posted on 02/10/2005 4:00:50 PM PST by Poohbah (God must love fools. He makes so many of them...)
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To: DoughtyOne

No --- you're right --- there is absolutely no evidence at all that millions of dirt cheap, uninsured permanent "guests" are needed. My point though was IF THEY WERE --- which is not the case --- why would we want a policy that ruled out guests from a variety of countries? This is because the guest worker amnesty plan is being pushed by Vicente Fox --- no other reason whatsoever. IF it were coming from a true need for guests it wouldn't be such an obviously biased racist plan. It would be open to a variety of guests. Like all other immigration at one time was.


372 posted on 02/10/2005 6:19:10 PM PST by FITZ
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To: Poohbah

President Bush is smart, but removed from the reality on the ground in D.C. after a while as all top executives are. It will take a terrorist act across the southern border for him to slam the hammer down. He could declare martial law and create a dead zone on our border in 12 hours. I'm afraid that's what it will look like.


373 posted on 02/10/2005 6:36:20 PM PST by BobS
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To: Luis Gonzalez
pictures of the trains and buses headed for the borders

They don't show up now and that's the way that Mexico is sending them. Actaully a boxcar of 11 dead illegals, a semi-trailer of 100 half dead and several fully dead illegals doesn't produce any outrage --- at least not if they're coming in from Mexico that way. No one cares about the corruption in Mexico that has the serial murderers and rapists of over 400 women and girls in just one border town running free --- protected by their government. Where's all the outrage in that? Where's the outrage that one of the world's top ten wealthiest countries is so pathetically corrupt that one in five of it's citizens has fled and the desperation is even more higher?

374 posted on 02/10/2005 6:40:38 PM PST by FITZ
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To: Luis Gonzalez
pictures of the trains and buses headed for the borders

They don't show up now and that's the way that Mexico is sending them. Actaully a boxcar of 11 dead illegals, a semi-trailer of 100 half dead and several fully dead illegals doesn't produce any outrage --- at least not if they're coming in from Mexico that way. No one cares about the corruption in Mexico that has the serial murderers and rapists of over 400 women and girls in just one border town running free --- protected by their government. Where's all the outrage in that? Where's the outrage that one of the world's top ten wealthiest countries is so pathetically corrupt that one in five of it's citizens has fled and the desperation is even more higher?

375 posted on 02/10/2005 6:40:41 PM PST by FITZ
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To: Luis Gonzalez
"A Haitian or Ugandan should have equal chances as Mexican." Most of them drown while walking over here.

I also suggested that those willing to obey the laws be given at least EQUAL chances to participate in a "guest worker" program --- which would not mean that law-breakers are given all the chances and law-abiders are told to go to hell. No one who has committed felony document fraud should become a legal "guest", and the application to the program should be done from their home countries --- we wouldn't want to reward the worst types and punish the best types now would we? And that would mean a law abiding Haitian or Ugandan or Romanian could apply and be given an equal chance to participate. Anything less is racist as hell.

376 posted on 02/10/2005 6:46:34 PM PST by FITZ
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To: Luis Gonzalez
"A Haitian or Ugandan should have equal chances as Mexican." Most of them drown while walking over here.

I also suggested that those willing to obey the laws be given at least EQUAL chances to participate in a "guest worker" program --- which would not mean that law-breakers are given all the chances and law-abiders are told to go to hell. No one who has committed felony document fraud should become a legal "guest", and the application to the program should be done from their home countries --- we wouldn't want to reward the worst types and punish the best types now would we? And that would mean a law abiding Haitian or Ugandan or Romanian could apply and be given an equal chance to participate. Anything less is racist as hell.

377 posted on 02/10/2005 6:46:46 PM PST by FITZ
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To: pissant; All
The problem with illegals going back to their home country before they can apply for a so-called temporary guest worker visa is the whole guest worker program is Mexico centric.

Once the Delay plan is implentmented the Mexican and U.S. government will setup a joint guest worker office just across the Mexican border.

Illegal aliens from Mexico that are U.S. residents can simply drive across the Mexican border go to the Mexi-American guest worker office and get a fast tracked guest worker visa and drive back in the same day.

The Delay plan must say the illegals have to live in their home country for one full year before they can apply for a guest worker visa.

378 posted on 02/10/2005 7:01:08 PM PST by Conservative Firster
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To: Dat Mon
Yes, I am a realist.

When did this problem start?

As soon as we ended the Bracero program.

Why didn't Reagan's amnesty work?

Because he failed to follow it up with a guest worker program.

Here's your first reality check...troops will never be posted at the borders to stop Mexicans from entering the country illegally, or at least to the extent that you and others advocate. Part of that is due to the legalities involved, part due to the nightmare logistics behind watching thousands of miles of borders between the US, Mexico, and Canada, as well as the tens of thousands of miles of shoreline, and the biggest reason of all of course being that there would be absolutely no end to the mission; as soon as you pull the troops from the borders, the illegals will cross again.

Troops at the borders solve nothing.

The program will help secure our borders by the mere fact that it will route movement across the border to the legal points of entry leaving less crossers to control; we know from history that given a choice, the guest worker will return home.

Of course I support Prop. 200.

By the way, I favor cutting off ALL welfare entitlements, not just to illegal aliens, but to the native born as well...and no, I believe that if the guest worker is granted a temporary worker's visa, his family should come with him. The spouse should then also be processed.

One last thing...about those millions that Reagan granted amnesty to.

Where are they today?

They are working, their children are in school, and their older sons and daughters are serving in the US military at a rate out of proportion to their representation in society.

Illegal aliens before Reagan's amnesty, hard working Americans after it.

379 posted on 02/10/2005 7:29:08 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: Conservative Firster

The problem with you guys is that you will continue to bitch until you reduce a working plan to a non-working one.

Wait a year?

Why go home at all then?


380 posted on 02/10/2005 7:30:38 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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