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To: skellmeyer
While the Catholics may feel the RCC is Christianity others would say Christianity is far more encompassing. You'll never get the Southern Baptists to believe the Pope is the head of the church simply because they have a different paradigm. Especially as long as the RCC condemns everyone to Hell who is not a Catholic (according to Vatican I).
61 posted on 02/07/2005 11:33:22 AM PST by HarleyD
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To: HarleyD
Especially as long as the RCC condemns everyone to Hell who is not a Catholic (according to Vatican I).

It would help if you familiarized yourself with Catholic documents before you made such foolish assertions. The Church has always said - Vatican II repeats this, btw - that anyone who rejects the teachings of the Church while simultaneously acknowledging the Church is the true one condemns himself to hell. Few people are quite that stupid. That is the intended sense of the passage. You can make up all kinds of things by mis-reading the passage, but I can't help that.

63 posted on 02/07/2005 11:35:59 AM PST by skellmeyer
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To: HarleyD
Especially as long as the RCC condemns everyone to Hell who is not a Catholic (according to Vatican I).

Vatican I did no such thing. Neither did any other ecumenical council. If you're talking about the anathema Vatican I issued against those who deny the universal jurisdiction of the Pope, then you need to know: (1) an anathema is a formal excommunication, not a "condemnation to hell"; (2) as a canonical penalty, it applies only to Catholics. So what that means is that a Catholic who denies the universal jurisdiction of the Pope is formally excommunicated, or at least it did mean that until the penalty of anathema itself was abrogated in 1983.

It doesn't say anything about anyone else, because Protestants, while validly baptized, are outside Church law (see Ludwig Ott), though of course not outside natural law (because nobody is).

I mean, honestly, Harley, you Protestants believe some really crazy things about us. Pius IX, the Pope who called Vatican I, said flatly that nobody is condemned to hell apart from voluntary fault. If you're a Protestant because you think you're doing God's will, then that's not voluntary fault, is it?

And finally, what about those Protestants who say quite clearly that (a) Catholics aren't Christians; and (b) all non-Christians are going to hell. (By the way, I don't agree that Protestants aren't Christians, nor do I say that all non-Christians are going to hell. God saves those whom he chooses to save, period.) Are you going to take them to task?

86 posted on 02/07/2005 12:33:59 PM PST by Campion
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To: HarleyD; skellmeyer
Especially as long as the RCC condemns everyone to Hell who is not a Catholic (according to Vatican I).

Not to mention the Council of Trent, a few hundred papal bulls . . . And yet the current pope regards people of all religions to have a part in the kingdom of heaven. Most curious, that . . .

105 posted on 02/07/2005 1:03:31 PM PST by Buggman (Your failure to be informed does not make me a kook.)
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