Immigration Bill May Settle Fence Fight (Tijuana)

AP-Las Vegas Sun ^ | 02/04/05 | By ERICA WERNER

[LarkNeelie]

WASHINGTON (AP) - A ragged fence and a canyon called Smugglers Gulch mark the westernmost stretch of the California-Mexico border, a favorite crossing point for illegal immigrants and drug runners.

...Now supporters may be getting closer to victory. A provision in an immigration bill expected to pass the House next week would give the homeland security secretary authority to move forward with the project regardless of any laws that stand in the way, and would bar courts from hearing lawsuits against it.

"We need to get this thing done, and we need to do it for security reasons, and at some point we just need to do it," said House Armed Services Committee Chairman Duncan Hunter, R-Calif., whose district is just north of the border.

But environmentalists and the California Coastal Commission, the independent state agency that regulates the state's coastline, say the plan promoted by U.S. Customs and Border Protection is too extreme.

...How the fence provision would fare in the Senate is unclear. California's two Democratic senators have not announced their positions.

[LarkNeelie]

Would a "Berlin Wall" type of x-treme barrier that extended across the entire border pay for itself in the savings to our economy?

[R. Scott]

It’s doubtful. The cost of building, maintaining and manning would be extreme, and just as drug smugglers find different ways to circumvent security so will the coyotes. To be effective the wall would have to extend from the Pacific to the Gulf. The illegals would then be coming in through tunnels and by boat or through Canada.
It would be better to beef up patrols and actually just enforce current laws, particularly on employers.

[Nyboe]

israels wall seems to be working just fine, using high tech monitoring equipment.

[datura]

Yes, it would. I lived in Berlin back when the Wall was up and running ('82 - '85). Much of the security duties could be automated vs. the way the East Germans did things. It's actually easier to keep people out of an enclosure that to keep people inside one.

I'd make the minefield deeper than the E. Germans did, and get rid of the dogs which lived their entire lives attached to a wire. The guard towers were too close to each other as well - in order to keep the guards from escaping.

[Wormwood]

I don't know...but where can I send my check?

[skinkinthegrass]

It would be better to beef up patrols and actually just enforce current laws, particularly on employers.

..esp. employers. ..mandatory Hard Jail Time and Very Heavy Fines.

[stopem]

"Among other provisions, it would level the peaks lining Smugglers Gulch and fill part of the deep canyon with 2 million cubic yards of dirt in order to build a road across it. The Coastal Commission voted down the proposal a year ago, saying it would erode soil near the federally protected Tijuana Estuary that's home to marshes, California brown pelicans and rare plants and birds.

"We're going to destroy our environment in the name of fear," said Peter Douglas, the commission's executive director. "Frankly, there are ways that we can do both, protecting the environment and meeting the concerns of border control and homeland security

Environmentalists strike again.
Heaven forbid we should stop terroists and/or illegals from coming into this country when the Brown pelicans may be harmed. Hmmm lets see lives of brown pelicans or security of the country............in the name of fear???Hello!

[ny demimonde]

a fantasy as long as vicente fox is president of mexico. he seems to have extraordinary influence over our government.

[stopem]

LOL! Good one.

[FBD]

A border wall/fence like Israel’s is costing between 2 to 4 million per mile to build, depending on the area, and number of motion sensors, monitors and control stations.

Based on that complex fence design, our 2000 mile border with Mexico would cost $8 billion dollars to build. this section (below) is a diagram of some of the most complicated fencing area, running $4 million per mile. The entire 600 kilometer fence project is projected to cost 2.5 billion. Source:
http://www.construction.com/NewsCenter/Headlines/ENR/20040329b.asp

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It is a very complex fence/wall system, but a far less complicated one could be built for a lot less, that would deter a majority of illegal border crossings.

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Click here to see an animated display of precast concrete fence construction
www.concretefence.com/pages/homelandsecurity

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See that "border fence" in the pictures below? Our border with Mexico in AZ. Three years after 9/11. Does that look secure?
Border hoppers, ready to come across:

[eluminate]

to be honest the border guard is one of those positions that is fairly understaffed and the fence could bridge the gap between the manpower and its ability to function properly. Simply speaking its more dangerous to be a border guard as well as more demanding location/language/workethic wise...

The wall will work only if they enforce its role with actual deportation and not look the other way like they have in the past. Much hinderance are the states in pressing with lawsuits upon the federal border authorities and that alleviated pressure from the later to preform well. States have to stand behind laws enforcing them instead of creating beuracratic procedures which effectively kill off the ability to secure borders.

[R. Scott]

The Israelis wall is a lot shorter than ours would have to be.

[R. Scott]

If they can’t find jobs the numbers will drop to a manageable level – just the criminals, terrorists and a few low income types visiting legal relatives.

[FBD]

I think it makes more sense to deter folks at our border (especially the coyotes, drug runners, and the MS-18 gang bangers)
-Then it does to be chasing them all over the cdesert, through peoples private property and yards, etc.

THAT makes no sense to me, at all. But apparently the Bush administration doesn't see it that way. In a post 9/11 world, that's baffling.