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House Conservatives Want Bush's Pension Plan to Go Further
NY Times ^ | February 5, 2005 | DAVID D. KIRKPATRICK and CARL HULSE

Posted on 02/04/2005 8:43:19 PM PST by neverdem

BALTIMORE, Feb. 4 - Conservatives in the House of the Representatives put down their marker in the battle over changing Social Security on Friday, calling for larger individual accounts than President Bush has proposed and promising to fight any tax increases to pay for the benefits to the growing number of retirees.

At a retreat here attended by more than 50 representatives in the conservative House Republican Study Committee, its chairman, Representative Mike Pence of Indiana said the members' objections to new or increased taxes to pay for the president's plan was deafening. Mr. Pence said the group also called for allowing workers to set aside 6 percent, instead of the president's proposed 4 percent, of their wages, roughly all of their Social Security payroll tax, for individual accounts.

Many of the group's members support a proposal by Senator John E. Sununu, Republican of New Hampshire, and Representative Paul D. Ryan, Republican of Wisconsin.

Beyond endorsing those proposals, they said they wanted to use the debate as a wedge to achieve their long-held goal of shrinking the size of government.

"So seldom it seems to me do these windows of opportunity to really recast government come along," Representative Bob Beauprez, Republican of Colorado, said.

Several members noted that Congress has for decades helped finance general spending by borrowing from the surplus in the Social Security trust fund, money generated by revenues from workers' payroll taxes that exceeded the cost of paying retirees' benefits.

"Government took the money out of the Social Security surplus," Representative Jeb Hensarling, Republican of Texas, said. "The government ought to give the money back, and the way to do that is to moderate the growth of government. We all hate the deficit. But the deficit is the symptom. Spending is the disease."

As Senator Tom Coburn, Republican of Oklahoma, said just after the president's State of the Union address: "I am not going to be able to put my finger in the dike and stop this place from spending the money. I want personal accounts because I want to take the money away from here so people can't have it."

The president has faced strong opposition from Democrats and concerns among Republicans, who have begun offering alternatives on some provisions. Asked about the conservatives' announcement, a spokesman for the White House, Trent Duffy, said, "The president welcomes comments from members of Congress about how to fix Social Security, as opposed to those who want to ignore the problem and leave our children and grandchildren empty handed."

By White House calculations, the president's plan would require more than $750 billion in new government spending between now and 2015 to cover payments to retirees and trillions more after that.

Without raising taxes, the plan could involve difficult options like cutting guaranteed benefits, borrowing significant sums, or - the conservatives' favorite - shrinking the government. To avoid those tough alternatives, other Congressional Republicans have proposed raising the current cap on the payroll tax or potentially adding other fees like a value added tax.

Senator Lindsey Graham, Republican of South Carolina, has proposed paying raising the limit on wages subject to the payroll tax, from its cap at $90,000. Such a change could cover the projected shortfall in the trust fund by raising taxes for about 6 percent of taxpayers.

In a veiled reference to Mr. Bush's Medicare drug plan enacted last year, Mr. Pence said the conservative caucus did not want Mr. Bush's proposed "reform" to end up as "an enormous increase in the program."

Several House conservatives have privately said Mr. Bush misled them about the costs of that plan, which exceeded the administration's public projections.

Mr. Pence said the conservatives also planned to call for the individual accounts to be available to young workers immediately or as soon as possible. Mr. Bush had proposed making the first accounts available in 2009, deferring the financial burden of the transition.

The caucus members hastened to add that they, too, wanted to maintain current benefits for current retirees older than 55, just as Mr. Bush has promised.

If Congress could not finance the cost of paying benefits in the transition to private accounts by reducing other government spending, Mr. Pence said, the House conservatives would prefer borrowing to raising taxes.

"We are willing to pay it forward, to borrow money to make it happen," he said.

Any borrowing would eventually have to be paid, ultimately meeting the same goal of covering the costs out of other government revenue.

David D. Kirkpatrick reported from Baltimore for this article, and Carl Hulse from Washington.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: District of Columbia; US: Indiana; US: Maryland; US: Oklahoma; US: South Carolina
KEYWORDS: conservativism; pubbies

1 posted on 02/04/2005 8:43:19 PM PST by neverdem
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To: neverdem
Conservatives in the House of the Representatives put down their marker in the battle over changing Social Security on Friday, calling for larger individual accounts than President Bush has proposed and promising to fight any tax increases to pay for the benefits to the growing number of retirees.

Thank you, conservatives!!!

2 posted on 02/04/2005 8:45:32 PM PST by k2blader (It is neither compassionate nor conservative to support the expansion of socialism.)
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To: neverdem

Agree 100%. Maxing accounts out at 4% of payroll taxes? Meaningless window dressing. This seems to be still pushing off the final fix of our archaic pension system to a future administration. Of course, it's better than nothing, and once people realize how great they are they will want higher contribution levels. But that will take way too long. Chile completely overhauled their system in 1981, replacing the pay-as-you-go system with all-personal accounts. 14 nations, including Poland have adopted this methodology. Our system and systems like it are doomed to failure. I don't see how Bush gets his "legacy" like FDR with puny accounts which max out at 4%. why not push the Chilean system and make it a BIG fight.


3 posted on 02/04/2005 8:48:19 PM PST by montag813
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To: neverdem

Well this is positive. At least some are willing to put forth a plan for debate in the House. For awhile all coming out of the House was fear over their election chances if they did their duty. Not saying those folks have been silenced, but we're hearing people ready to engage the President now.

Interesting how the percentage keeps rising. 4% is higher than the President originally suggested. I was pleasantly surprised he moved it up. Now the House is suggesting a rise to 6%. IMO, they are setting a higher bar aware of the coming negotiations. Always ask for more than you believe you can get.

Graham better get this foolish idea of a tax hike out of his head or the citizens of S.C. may decide to elect another.


4 posted on 02/04/2005 8:55:33 PM PST by Soul Seeker
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To: k2blader

Every time I have seen Mike Pence on the floor of the House, I have like him more and more.

After reading this, I think he is now my hands down favorite congressman. I totally agree with starting it NOW, and making the accounts larger. Therefore the person has more options in moving his money into different funds.

Go, Cong. Pence, go!!!

Sen. Lindsay Graham is a wuss, I think.


5 posted on 02/04/2005 9:02:02 PM PST by Txsleuth (Proud to be a Texan)
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To: Txsleuth

Keep in mind, They are striving to set a high bar. Then if it is knocked down a bit we are still left with reasonable gains. Still I'd love to attain the high limits set. Good Luck to them all.


6 posted on 02/04/2005 9:05:32 PM PST by Soul Seeker
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To: montag813

Check out Galveston Texas. They opted out in the early 80's.

Just as all municipal workers in Texas were about to make the jump, Congress slammed the loophole.


7 posted on 02/04/2005 9:15:04 PM PST by TASMANIANRED (Certified cause of Post Traumatic Redhead Syndrome)
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To: k2blader

I would bet money that was the plan from the beginning.


8 posted on 02/04/2005 9:17:22 PM PST by Paul C. Jesup
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To: neverdem
Pres. Bush has been calling for ideas from everyone since he first mentioned SS. The song from the Dems has been "he hasn't given us his plan". The reason for that is whatever he suggested the boo. He has given them few restrictions, no PR tax hike, not cuts in benefits but everything else is on the table. No one rose to the occasion. If Congress were a corporation they would all be fired by now.

IMO the Pres. wants to dump the whole mess but that would certainly be war. I also believe I have heard him say it would be a phase in plan...until the entire tax was in the new plan.

Transition costs are simple. Minimize the whole system thereby reducing the number of high paid government employees needed to manage it. Next, dump income tax in favor of a flat tax or sales tax. Whallah, IRS reduced to minuscule proportion. I would need to further study that ludicrous institution but my guess is it be a savings of close to, oh, maybe, $750 billion over the next 10 years.
9 posted on 02/04/2005 10:15:08 PM PST by Just A Nobody (Social Security, Income Tax & Tort Reform - Now)
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To: Txsleuth

Mike Pence is a great Hoosier(representing American values). His conserative radio show, prior to being elected was the best. On 9/11 Mike Pence got me through the morning by saying something like, "ok, Hoosiers, let's do what we Hoosiers do best, let us pray." He still stays in contact with Indiana via a radio connection in his DC office. Mike Pence, a true conservative!


10 posted on 02/05/2005 1:52:38 AM PST by raisincane (Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfield - A Great US Team!)
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To: neverdem
If its good enough for federal employees and Congresscritters, its good enough for the American people. There's no need to wait four years to make personal retirement accounts available to them.

Denny Crane: "There are two places to find the truth. First God and then Fox News."

11 posted on 02/05/2005 4:21:42 AM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: neverdem

All the conservatives quoted are young guys. They are not the old hacks who have driven roots into the socialist bedrock of government programs that buy votes. We are blessed to have them speaking out and need to make certain the president knows they have our support. Government has the worst case of obesity in our country, with plenty of fat to be cut. It must be put on a diet for the sake of our children and grandchildren.


12 posted on 02/05/2005 4:29:43 AM PST by kittymyrib
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To: neverdem
To avoid those tough alternatives, other Congressional Republicans have proposed raising the current cap on the payroll tax or potentially adding other fees like a value added tax.

O.K., I was fine with this, happy even, until I saw this part. We need to get the names and explain the facts of life to these particular "Congressional Republicans".
13 posted on 02/05/2005 4:40:13 AM PST by deaconjim (Freep the world!)
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To: deaconjim
Its called "revenue enhancement." A euphemism for a tax increase.

Denny Crane: "There are two places to find the truth. First God and then Fox News."

14 posted on 02/05/2005 4:44:57 AM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: goldstategop

It should be called the fastest way to earn the title "Former Republican Congressman".


15 posted on 02/05/2005 4:54:48 AM PST by deaconjim (Freep the world!)
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To: neverdem
I have an even better idea. Let me out right now, tell me that I won't ever collect a penny of it, but guarantee me that I don't ever have to pay another penny, and I'll take that option today. I would come out so far ahead, and I'm a grey haired guy. Or, I could just make a straight transfer payment to my mom. Either way. Just let me out of this $#%$#$# system. That also negates the universal identifier number that everyone requires, and allows someone else to steal my identity. I want OUT.
16 posted on 02/05/2005 8:21:47 AM PST by Hardastarboard
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To: Txsleuth; theworkersarefew; ZULU; Badray; demkicker; RockinRight; T.L.Sink; libertyman; ...
Mike Pence is absolutely the real deal.He is the leader of the conservative movement in Washington.Conservatives need to quit being so pessimistic about the future of conservatism.We need to get behind Mike Pence and give him our full support.It is up to us to elevate his name ID.
17 posted on 02/05/2005 9:23:07 AM PST by Gipper08
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To: Gipper08

I don't see how the Democrats effectively fight SS reform. If it's done right, it is a win-win situation for everbody - no real benefit cuts, just a rearrangement of the system for higher returns. Who can really argue against that?


18 posted on 02/05/2005 11:30:37 AM PST by FastCoyote
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To: k2blader

Good work by the House Republicans. The best thing about this plan is:

1) It may start the ball rolling to end Social Security entirely in the decades to come.

2) It may help us avoid a complete collpase of the program that takes the government and economy wit it, and plunges the world into a depression.


19 posted on 02/05/2005 11:34:18 AM PST by Zack Nguyen
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