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Participants Would Forfeit Part of Accounts' Profits (SS Reform Proposal)
Washington Post ^ | 2/3/05 | Jonathan Wiesman

Posted on 02/03/2005 9:30:45 AM PST by 1LongTimeLurker

Under the White House Social Security plan, workers who opt to divert some of their payroll taxes into individual accounts would ultimately get to keep only the investment returns that exceed the rate of return that the money would have accrued in the traditional system.

The mechanism, detailed by a senior administration official before President Bush's State of the Union address, would hold down the cost of Bush's plan to introduce personal accounts to the Social Security system. But it could come as a surprise to lawmakers and voters who have thought of these accounts as akin to an individual retirement account or a 401(k) that they could use fully upon retirement.

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: deceit; fabrication; jonathanwiesman; medialies; socialsecurity; wp
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Despite the rhetoric about creation of private social security accounts, it looks like the proposal would create something that would make the IRS tax code look simple by comparison.
1 posted on 02/03/2005 9:30:45 AM PST by 1LongTimeLurker
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To: 1LongTimeLurker

"If a worker sets aside $1,000 a year for 40 years, and earns 4 percent annually on investments, the account would grow to $99,800 in today's dollars, but the government would keep $78,700 -- or about 80 percent of the account. The remainder, $21,100, would be the worker's. "

If this is truly the case, what the heck does GWB think he's trying to accomplish? Put $40,000 in, and get $21,100 back? Such a deal.


2 posted on 02/03/2005 9:34:55 AM PST by crv16
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Comment #3 Removed by Moderator

To: 1LongTimeLurker

Leave it to them to take something simple and turn it into something idiotic.

Who the hell is going to agree to a scam like this?


4 posted on 02/03/2005 9:35:10 AM PST by Bikers4Bush (Flood waters rising, heading for more conservative ground. Vote for true conservatives!)
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To: 1LongTimeLurker

Also, at its max the account could only get 4% of a person's payroll contribution. I've never seen numbers on this, does a lousy 4% of the SS contribution amount to anything? Sounds miniscule to me.


5 posted on 02/03/2005 9:36:06 AM PST by Williams
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To: Individual Rights in NJ
Can you explain this to me I do not get it. What is the rate of return that exceeds the traditional system? Could you put this in laymans terms for me? Thanks.

From the article:

The plan is more complicated. Under the proposal, workers could invest as much as 4 percent of their wages subject to Social Security taxation in a limited assortment of stock, bond and mixed-investment funds. But the government would keep and administer that money. Upon retirement, workers would then be given any money that exceeded inflation-adjusted gains over 3 percent.

That money would augment a guaranteed Social Security benefit that would be reduced by a still-undetermined amount from the currently promised benefit.


6 posted on 02/03/2005 9:36:58 AM PST by 1LongTimeLurker
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To: Williams
Also, at its max the account could only get 4% of a person's payroll contribution. I've never seen numbers on this, does a lousy 4% of the SS contribution amount to anything? Sounds miniscule to me.

You currently pay 6.2% of your salary into SS (your employer matches another 6.2%).

In the President's proposal you would only pay 2.2% of your salary into SS, the remaining amount (4% of your salary) would go into your private account. Nothing would change for your employer.

7 posted on 02/03/2005 9:38:29 AM PST by 1LongTimeLurker
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To: 1LongTimeLurker

Another part of the plan - you couldn't get your money out at retirement, instead the government would mandate that you buy annuities that would pay you a fixed rate of return.


8 posted on 02/03/2005 9:39:26 AM PST by 1LongTimeLurker
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To: Williams

THAT doesn't sound right. Can someone explain this? This sounds like a flim flam scam, and I cannot believe the Republicans would dream up a scheme that could be explained so clearly as a scam the day after it sees the light of day. Someone would be sure to say "Hey...this is NOT going to fly..."

Can anyone verify this interpretation?


9 posted on 02/03/2005 9:40:37 AM PST by rlmorel
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To: crv16
I'm assuming that the worker continues to get their FULL SS entitlement (in other words, not reduced by the amount they put in the personal account). Therefore, that portion of the account stays in the system and you own the excess amount earned in your private account.

Makes a bit more sense, but still has limitations. For example, if you die early you only own the "excess" earnings.

10 posted on 02/03/2005 9:40:41 AM PST by Williams
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To: Williams
I'm assuming that the worker continues to get their FULL SS entitlement (in other words, not reduced by the amount they put in the personal account).

I don't think that assumption is correct. Your entitlement would be reduced if you participate in the plan (on the assumption that you would get a better rate of return by opting out of your entitlement).

11 posted on 02/03/2005 9:42:02 AM PST by 1LongTimeLurker
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To: 1LongTimeLurker
Wait a minute, I clearly heard Bush say ALL possibilities are on the table.
12 posted on 02/03/2005 9:42:44 AM PST by Ignatius J Reilly
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To: 1LongTimeLurker

Hmm, I'm confused already.


13 posted on 02/03/2005 9:42:50 AM PST by FourtySeven (47)
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To: Williams
I'm assuming that the worker continues to get their FULL SS entitlement (in other words, not reduced by the amount they put in the personal account). Therefore, that portion of the account stays in the system and you own the excess amount earned in your private account.

Yeah, but the President said in the SOTU that people 55 or older would not see benefit cuts. That implies that people under 55, who are eligible for private accts, would see benefit cuts.

14 posted on 02/03/2005 9:45:42 AM PST by crv16
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To: 1LongTimeLurker
If this is really what they are proposing, they can stuff the lot of it up their rears.

They are morons, and further, they think we are morons too.

The problem is, they are more than willing to kill you for resisting. Until we have the same lack of respect for them that they have for us, we'll continue to be their slaves.

15 posted on 02/03/2005 9:47:06 AM PST by zeugma (Come to the Dark Side...... We have cookies!)
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To: 1LongTimeLurker

Yes, but if your benefit is reduced by your private account contribution, and then you only keep the "extra" your account earned, you never get the bulk of the money you put in the private account. If that's the case, you won't use the private account option. I think that in one of the examples above, the normal SS part would be about 2/3 of the account and the "extra" earned part would only be about 1/3. So no one would trade $2 in benefits to get the "extra" $1.


16 posted on 02/03/2005 9:47:58 AM PST by Williams
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To: zeugma

Chill out. Let's not make a judgement until we know, because we surely don't know the whole story yet.

I'm not ready to call em morons yet. We don't want to jack up their IQ's to higher levels until we know what the plan is about...:)


17 posted on 02/03/2005 9:52:09 AM PST by rlmorel
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To: 1LongTimeLurker
Wait one ... I think this is accounting sleight of hand in the best traditions of government accounting. Think about it for a moment ... Let's say participation was optional and for round numbers sake, let's say you get $10,000 in benefits under the existing SocSec plan. OK, you get the option to put $4K into your own account BUT the government will not continue to give you the full $10,000. Of course not ... you would get $6,000 from the modified SocSec plus the income from your $4,000 private account PLUS any extra that the $4K earned - let's say $1,000. Thus, when you compare non-participating person "John" who gets the $10,000 with participating person "Mary" who gets a total of $11,000. Yes, from that perspective, Mary only "gets" the "excess" $1K earnings. But as you can plainly see, she gets the full benefit of her private account. They are quibbling about who disburses the private account investment and making it sound like the new plan is screwing you.

Like I said, the WaPo article is FUNDAMENTALLY MISLEADING.In other words, Bull$hiat.

18 posted on 02/03/2005 9:52:30 AM PST by NonValueAdded ("We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good" HRC 6/28/2004)
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To: 1LongTimeLurker

Does the employee's 4% include the employer's 4% for a total of 8%?


19 posted on 02/03/2005 9:52:42 AM PST by Ursus arctos horribilis ("It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!" Emiliano Zapata 1879-1919)
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To: Ursus arctos horribilis
Does the employee's 4% include the employer's 4% for a total of 8%?

No, employer contributions would continue to go into the SS general fund.

20 posted on 02/03/2005 9:53:51 AM PST by 1LongTimeLurker
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