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Rumsfeld considers war crime prosecution risk (May not go to Germany due to possibility of ARREST)
ABC News (Australia) / AFP ^ | February 2, 2005

Posted on 02/02/2005 12:02:12 AM PST by Stoat

Rumsfeld considers war crime prosecution risk

Concern that US leaders and military personnel risk prosecution in Germany for alleged war crimes has become a factor in deciding whether US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld will attend an international security conference in Munich, a Pentagon spokesman said Tuesday.

US defence secretaries have rarely missed the Munich conference, an annual gathering of the world's top defence and national security officials and experts for two days of frank debate on major issues of war and peace.

Mr Rumsfeld has announced no plans to attend this year's meeting from February 11-13 even though he will be attending a meeting of NATO defence ministers in Nice, France just before it.

Pentagon spokesman Lawrence DiRita said it remains to be determined whether Mr Rumsfeld will attend the Munich meeting.

The meeting's organiser, Horst Teltschik, said last month Mr Rumsfeld was not going.

Mr Rumsfeld was among 10 high-ranking US civilian and military officials named in a criminal complaint filed November 30 with a German federal prosecutor by a US legal rights group seeking an investigation into the Americans' role in the torture and abuse of detainees in Iraq.

Under Germany's Code of Crimes Against International Law, which was introduced in 2002, German courts have universal jurisdiction in war crimes and crimes against humanity.

Acknowledging US concern about the German law, Mr DiRita told AFP, "It's a factor in the decision" on whether Rumsfeld attends the Munich conference.

"It's not just a question of the secretary's travel. We have many thousands of US forces stationed there, some of which are named in this brief. So it's a big, big problem," he said.

He said the issue was being "worked on a government-wide basis".

"My impression is the German Government understands the gravity of this matter, but there are some unique aspects that will take time to address," he said.

A Berlin newspaper reported last week that the German federal prosecutor opted not to take legal action against Mr Rumsfeld because no German citizen was a victim of abuse at the Abu Ghraib prison.

The New York-based Centre For Constitution Rights, which filed the initial complaint, said on Friday it has filed new documents in the case, contending that attorney-general nominee Alberto Gonzalez had implicated himself in war crimes in Iraq, including torture at Abu Ghraib, in his Senate confirmation testimony.



TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: eurotrash; rumsfeld
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To: Stoat
Let them try to arrest him and just see what would happen. It would be great theater!

It would be grounds for war.
41 posted on 02/02/2005 12:53:49 AM PST by swilhelm73 (Appeasers believe that if you keep on throwing steaks to a tiger, the tiger will become a vegetarian)
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To: Stoat
Concern that US leaders and military personnel risk prosecution in Germany for alleged war crimes

Oh - I think there's a fairly easy way to solve THAT problem.

Just march into the German embassies, and arrest a few of their diplomats. They wanna arrest high US government officials. I say - beat 'em to the punch!

Now - which embassy goes first? Mmmmm. Maybe Rumsfeld, himself, could be in on the arrest. I'd love to see that on the news - and you know it would be.

42 posted on 02/02/2005 12:58:28 AM PST by sevry
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To: WestVirginiaRebel

Thanks! That was quick.


43 posted on 02/02/2005 1:00:18 AM PST by geopyg ("It's not that liberals don't know much, it's just that what they know just ain't so." (~ R. Reagan))
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To: HuntsvilleTxVeteran
Why do you use such a light hard to read font?

I use block text: < tt> and < /tt> without the spaces - for larger excerpts because 10 lines of italics really is impossible to read.

44 posted on 02/02/2005 1:01:37 AM PST by VisualizeSmallerGovernment (Question Liberal Authority)
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To: VisualizeSmallerGovernment

I asked why not how.


45 posted on 02/02/2005 1:04:30 AM PST by HuntsvilleTxVeteran (So I talk to myself, at least I am talking to a mind that is my equal)
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To: Stoat
Move our troops to Poland. Let Bush and Rumsfeld make frequent showy visits to our friends in Eaastern Europe. Send a succession of party hacks to Berlin as ambassador, and let them be the highest government officials ever to foul their feet on German soil for the rest of my lifetime.

-ccm

46 posted on 02/02/2005 1:26:32 AM PST by ccmay (Question Diversity)
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To: sevry; All

Y´all here watched way too many Hollywood-movies. Think about it, Germany arresting a US Secretary! LOL.


47 posted on 02/02/2005 1:37:20 AM PST by Michael81Dus ("Each country is occupied by troops. Either its own - or foreign.")
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To: VisualizeSmallerGovernment

A slight correction. Germany is NOT claiming universal jurisdiction in war crimes and crimes against humanity. Only, if the offender or victim is German citizen. So, kill a German in Zimbabwe and face murder trial in Germany.


48 posted on 02/02/2005 1:41:16 AM PST by Michael81Dus ("Each country is occupied by troops. Either its own - or foreign.")
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To: Stoat

Of course nobody in Germany would arrest him in the moment. This is complete nonsense. He is absolutely safe, because he is bearing a diplomatic passport and the accusations are not suitable for an arrest. Apart from that, nobody in the German justice has the balls to play this game with Rummie.

The real dynamite in the World Court or in Germany's Code of Crimes Against International Law is the effect over longer terms. Since we do not know, if the future administrations in the US or elsewhere put enough pressure on nations like Germany not to prosecute "american war crimes", it could be possible that traveling through Europe will be a quite dangerous adventure for many american soldiers and politicians in the future. Imagine Hillary's (or any other democratic president) "Schadenfreude" if Rummie would be thrown into a sticky prison cell. There would be no help for him. Republicans have reasons to win the next elections.

BTW - Do you remember the case between Belgium and Ariel Sharon? Belgium was the first country that prosecuted crimes against humanity even if no one with Beligian nationality was involved in the crimes. In effect it was impossible for Sharon, who was in charge with the murder in Sabra und Shatila to visit Belgium between 2001 and 2003. In 2003 Belgium canged the law after being pressed by the US and Israel.


49 posted on 02/02/2005 1:59:41 AM PST by Atlantic Bridge (Difficile est satiram non scribere.)
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To: Stoat
BS, pure and unadulterated
50 posted on 02/02/2005 2:19:19 AM PST by eclectic (Liberalism is a mental disorder)
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To: Stoat

International Kangaroo Court ping


51 posted on 02/02/2005 2:35:17 AM PST by Fenris6 (3 Purple Hearts in 4 months w/o missing a day of work? He's either John Rambo or a Fraud)
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To: Stoat

Close the bases. Close the bases. Close the bases.


52 posted on 02/02/2005 3:06:33 AM PST by samtheman
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To: Stoat

Arrest Rummy...L.O.L.....Oh yeah!...just try it...for one thing they would have to get through his personnel security force...I thought the Germans were anti-violence.


53 posted on 02/02/2005 3:48:58 AM PST by Route101
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To: Stoat
"It's not just a question of the secretary's travel. We have many thousands of US forces stationed there, some of which are named in this brief. So it's a big, big problem," he said.

It looks to me like Rummy is having a little fun using Germany's silliness against them. ;-) Rummy's visit to Germany is influenced by this "court" and so to may the presence of "many thousands of U.S. forces stationed there"?

54 posted on 02/02/2005 3:49:38 AM PST by Schnucki
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To: Stoat
"US legal rights group"

Wonder if this is part of Kristol's and McCain's insurgent group that have been after Rummy's head?
55 posted on 02/02/2005 3:54:23 AM PST by Just mythoughts
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To: samtheman
Close the bases. Close the bases. Close the bases.

Move them to the border. Move them to the border. Move them to the border.

56 posted on 02/02/2005 4:57:03 AM PST by numberonepal (Don't Even Think About Treading On Me)
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To: HuntsvilleTxVeteran
I asked why not how

Because italics over one line long are hard to read.

57 posted on 02/02/2005 5:40:53 AM PST by VisualizeSmallerGovernment (Question Liberal Authority)
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To: Michael81Dus
A slight correction. Germany is NOT claiming universal jurisdiction in war crimes and crimes against humanity. Only, if the offender or victim is German citizen. So, kill a German in Zimbabwe and face murder trial in Germany.

So Rumsfeld has been on a German-killing spree?

58 posted on 02/02/2005 5:42:15 AM PST by VisualizeSmallerGovernment (Question Liberal Authority)
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To: Michael81Dus

Rummy's defense should be that he was personally responsible for September 11. No German court could possibly convict him then.


59 posted on 02/02/2005 5:43:33 AM PST by VisualizeSmallerGovernment (Question Liberal Authority)
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To: Stoat
I wonder how the German government would react to a message like this.

You arrest our SecDef and we have several hundred throusand troops who will start killing and breaking things getting him back. Call.

60 posted on 02/02/2005 5:50:30 AM PST by Centurion2000 (Nations do not survive by setting examples for others. Nations survive by making examples of others)
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