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So we need to change the laws do we? LOL, so what you're saying is that you are now currently advocating something that is against the law.

I'm sorry you don't see a distinction between advocating fixing broken laws and advocating breaking the law. I guess MLK would have angered you when he called for an end to poll taxes and colored faucets. Opps race card again. I don't know why it's so easy with you, honest. :)

Relax, it's just a joke. Let's go with Falwell advocating an end to abortions even though abortions are legal. When the law was changed on PBA we didn't go back and punish the women who had PBAs and the doctors who performed them. But the isolationist wing of the Republican Party will not be satisfied when the issue of illegal immigration is solved by increasing legal immigration and guest workers. I sometimes refer to racism because I think some, but not all, of your allies in this fight for strict enforcement of our immigration laws are motivated by racism. Do you disagree?

Yes you do advocate ignoring laws. In fact you're so desperate to do so, that you'll equate someone who advocates our laws be enforced, to a former Klu-Klux Klan member.

No I did not! I pointed out that a former Klu-Klux Klan member advocates our immigration laws be enforced. My point is that will make Byrd very happy. This issue is a non-issue with most of America. If you ask them if they are "for" or "against" illegal immigration they unthinkingly see the word illegal and never consider the magnitude of 15 million people ripped out of their home and community. They might not understand unless/until it hits them that people who smile and serve them are gone along with a lot of business and economic growth.

Most people don't think about illegal immigration. In my experience, it's almost never a topic at the water cooler or in popular culture. You and I think about it a great deal but we are not average voters. The fact that most people do not care about this issue is indicated by the failure of the isolationist wing of the Republican Party, the rat party, or a 3rd party to persuade or develop a national candidate who espouses their views.

But the people will be educated and a debate will ensue. The debate has already begun in the media.

You probably consider yourself to be a conservative, a person who supports the U.S. Constitution and the laws of our nation.

Yes

Well you're not.

That hurts.

You advocate for millions of people who flout our nation's laws, ripping off billions of dollars worth of goods and services in the process. Not only that, they are desimating healthcare, education, infrastructure and other resources that should be reserved for U.S. Citizens. They have also been proven to be adulterating the election process.

I see illegals differently than you do. I see them as humans. I'm not trying to be flippant or say you see illegals as less than human. I'm saying you see economic and crime data and I see a bunch of people with little chance to escape poverty in their old homes. People who might die or watch their family die before they could legally enter the US. You see border crossing as an affront to the Constitution. I see it as a logical, desperate and human action. I see it as a moral issue rather than a legal issue. There but for the grace of God.

Now you are entitled to your opinion, and you may think my argument is specious or emotional, but many Americans look at illegals the same way I do. You can't legislate away the compassionate nature of the American people and you will not convince us with hyperbolic statements like "flout our nation's laws," or "decimating health care." I see too much evidence to the contrary with my own eyes.

Why do you hate the U.S. citizen taxpayer and their family's so much?

Well I don't of course. I love my country and its people. I have a wife, 2 adopted children, and my baby boy, as well as friends and other family. Like Dubya I'm a Christan pro-military pro-life pro-gun pro-business pro-family values RINO in your eyes. I don't doubt your love of country, but I do doubt your judgment.

Which nation is it that you advocate for? Mexico? Which organizations do you support, D.U.?, A.N.S.W.E.R., La Raza, Maldef, La Voz De Aztlan? Inquiring minds would like to know.

I'll ignore this as the childishness that anyone can clearly see it is.

Yes of course, the laws you don't like are broken. I should have known. I note down below you've offered up some idiotic examples in order to justify your nonsensical approach to supporting criminality. Martin Luther King, abortions... Two can play at that game. The N.A.M.B.L.A. members who want to molest children, probably think the laws preventing that are broken too. I guess that makes you a pedofile sympathizer right? Not anymore than wanting our immigration laws to be enforced makes me a racist, despite the fact that you have sought to imply so in every post you've made to me.

Klu-Klux Klan members, poll taxes, colored faucets, Martin Luther King, abortions... you just can't discuss this issue without hot-button charged words that have nothing to do with your supporting criminal acts, can you!

Our nation is being invaded by between two and three million illegal aliens each year. These criminal aliens are unable to assimilate in these vast numbers. In the city of Los Angeles 52% of the working age men are unable to read or write elementary English. These people cannot house, feed, clothe and care for their families. They cannot pay for their family's healthcare or the education of their children. Your solution to these inconvenient facts, is to advocate that we admit them under a work permit program. What you would in effect do, is change their status from illegal to legal, but all the same problems that confront our communities and society would remain. That you can't see this, or simply act like you can't understand this is quite revealing. You just don't understand all the ramifications of what you support. If you do and still advocate it, it's even worse.

You ask if I think those who support the enforcement of our immigration laws are racists. I guess you are unable to understand that people have observed severe societal problems with what is taking place and desire our nation's laws be enforced. I sometimes think that some of the people who disagree with the laws of our nation might be supporting that view because they want to molest children? Do you disagree?

The arguement that 15 million people will be ripped out of our community is an interesting one. Generally I can't get you folks to agree to that number. In this instance you must have coughed that fur-ball up by accident. I agree there are enough illegal aliens in this nation to populate and area of the complexity and size of the greater Los Angeles and Orange County region. You mention this not to acknowledge that it's a massive amount of people, but rather to spin in advocacy of furthering the breaking of our nation's laws.

Tell me, if this nation can't get along without illegal immigrants to man it's businesses, then how are communities operating throughout the midwest, the north, the eastern and New England states? There are nowhere near the numbers of illegals in those area, in most there are none at all. Strangely, those communities still manage to thrive. Isn't that truly amazing. Kinda shoots your theory all to hell though.

As for water cooler discussions, ah I don't think so. Sex, politics, race relations... are not something you bring up if you have half a clue. It's the quickest way I know of to place a bulls-eye on your forhead for the next round of staff reductions.

You know, the isolationist bull-s--- just doesn't play here. Once again you are proving yourself incapable of discussing an issue on the merits. Even if we stopped every single illegal immigrant, the legal immigration would continue. People from most nations would still immigrate to the United States. People would still come here on visas to visit and conduct business. We would still travel to other nations. It's incomprehensible that you don't understand this. Isolationist? LOL

Look, you mentioned Byrd because you couldn't discuss this issue without race-baiting. I'd wager Byrd is against murder too. If we get into a discussion on that topic and you support stiff penalties against murder, am I supposed to mention that you agree with Robert Byrd, former KKK member? You guys have a blind spot that is two miles wide and one mile high. You just can't see how silly some of your arguements have gotten, in the effort to justify the claim of unfairness and unworkable nature regarding our nation's immigration laws. The immigration laws are fair for Asians, Europeans, Africans, Australians, but when it comes to Mexicans, they're the perview of folks who support Robert Byrd. Is that truly how you see it? Yikes! Even you must marvel at some of the logic you're putting forth.

Now we're off to the violyns, poverty and teddy bear theory of relativity. "Oh, I'm just so much more humanitarian than you. I really really am, no offense to you of course." Look, please provide some statistics that show that Mexicans are starving, children are dying, dogs and cats are on the verge of genocidal oblivion, or realize your sob story is nothing more than misguided balderdash. These people were existing before they came north. They may not have been existing in realive wealth, but that's no reason to turn vast regions of our nation into bario crime infested slums. It's not justification to demand tens of billions of dollars in direct support each year, so that we can slip into poverty to save them from it. I know you mean well, but you are way off base here. There are no reports of mass deaths or anything of the like down in Mexico. Where are you coming up with this stuff?

You mention that you have too much compassion. I see no evidence of compassion. I see evidence of ignorance. I see evidence of a misguided nature. I see no compassion. I don't say this with malice. It's an honest observation. If you have an ounce of compassion in your body, you'll begin to understand that whole regional school systems have been abandoned by U.S. citizens, because they have become nearly exclusive havens for the children of foreign nationals. Where's your compassion for the parents of U.S. children in these areas? Do think it appropraite for all U.S. citizens to pay billions of dollars in taxes to support those schools, but be unable to send their own children there? Where is your compassion for them? Where is your compasion for their children? Where is your compassion for the American families that have to spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars per month, so that their children can attend fee for service schools? Where is your compassion for the American kids who get fewer vacations, fewer family amenities, a lower standard of living, just so the chidlren of foreign nationals can get a free ride?

You ignore an awful lot, so that you can extend compassion to people who should stand in line behind your fellow citizens and their families. And you believe far too much propaganda, to make the positions you have adopted tenible.

You threw my comments about 'flouting the law' and 'desimating our healthcare system' back at me. Look, I worked in a major medical center for 26 years. I have observed first-hand the millions of dollars that were unrecoverable, that were spent to provide healthcare to illegal immigrants. You can say whatever you want, it's not going to change the reality of what really takes place in these institutions, as millions of dollars are siphoned off the bottom line. Employees are cut back. Equipment is cut back. Supplies are cut back. Length of patient days are cut back. Maintenance services are cut back. Corners are cut accross the board. And while you sit there making remarks about what you know, I can tell you that the healthcare American citizens recieve at these negatively impacted facilities, has suffered immeasurably. Don't tell me what you know. You're wrong. And if it weren't for the flouting of our nation's immigration laws, this would not be happening. I'll be damned if I'll allow you to spin otherwise.

I asked why you hated the American taxpayer so much, and you rattled off some foldergarb about loving this and that. Hey bud, we all do. I'm not demanding tens of billions of dollars be stolen from you and the American taxpayer so my pet save-the-world project can be funded. I'm not demanding you're whole town turn into Tijuana. I'm not demanding your fellow U.S. citizens abandon the local school systems so illegals can take over. I'm not asking your family to foot the bills of their own children in private school and live a sub-standard lifestyle while the kids who took their place in the public schools, drop out at higher rates than U.S. citizen students do in other school systems.

I'm not here to hurt your feelings. I'm here to ask you to open your eyes and realize you're hurting a whole hell of a lot of citizens in order to carry out your mission project. I don't see that as Christ-like in any way shape or form.

I asked you what nation or groups you supported and you didn't like it much. You simply cannot dismiss the government and agencies I asked you to consider. I want you to learn more about them, who drives their objectives, what do they truly support, what other organizations do they partner with. If you'd study this as much as you have listened to those who have fed you a line of bunk, you'd soon find out that you are in cohorts with people who are 180 degrees in opposition to what a Christian should be supporting.

I doubt you support the Palestinian terrorists. Most of these groups do. I doubt you support south American marxists. Most of these groups do. I doubt you support the democrat party. All of those groups do. And I'm here to tell you, they support the identical immgration policies you have bought off on. You simply must begin to think about these issue differently.