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A Sourpuss? Moi? [Peggy Noonan responds to her last column on the inaugural speech]
WSJ - Opinion Journal ^ | 1-26-05 | Peggy Noonan

Posted on 01/27/2005 2:08:34 AM PST by bellevuesbest

I have been called old, jaded, a sourpuss. Far worse, I have been called French. A response is in order.

You know the dispute. Last week I slammed the president's inaugural address. I was not alone, but I came down hard, early and in one of the most highly read editorial pages in America. Bill Buckley and David Frum also had critical reactions. Bill Safire on the other hand called it one of the best second inaugurals ever, and commentators from right and left (Bill Kristol, E.J. Dionne) found much to praise and ponder. (To my mind the best response to the inaugural was the grave, passionate essay of Mark Helprin.) So herewith some questions and answers:

A week later, do I stand by my views?

Yes. If I wrote it today I wouldn't be softer, but harder.

(Excerpt) Read more at opinionjournal.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: inauguraladdress; noonan; peggydowd; peggynoonan; sourpuss
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To: xsmommy; MEG33

Exactly what I was thinking. She can dish it out, but doesn't think she should even have to take it. Perhaps she's a bit green with envy at not being in the inner sanctum on this one.


261 posted on 01/27/2005 10:04:04 AM PST by fortunecookie
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To: rcofdayton; Javelina

For now I'll add you two to the list of people who didn't understand the speech. The important change is at home, here in our minds. If we simply choose to not intervene (how stable and safe is Saudi Arabia today?) in a number of situations where we would have before, it could change the world.

This is a bit like Bush senior's "read my lips" speech because a lot can get in the way of doing the right thing in practice. But it still is an important announcement of change. Study Sidney Jones on Indonesia, especially her comments about internal unrest in Banda Aceh. They believe Americans want to help them. It's bizarre, but that's the story all over the world. Anyone who wants freedom is either hopeful that America will help -- or bitterly dissappointed that we didn't do what we suggested we might.


262 posted on 01/27/2005 10:04:16 AM PST by risk
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To: iconoclast

Thanks I needed some more time to giggle!


263 posted on 01/27/2005 10:04:48 AM PST by Diva Betsy Ross (Just say no to the ACLU!)
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To: Diva Betsy Ross
Thanks I needed some more time to giggle!

No problem, it seems to be your strongest suit. ;o)

264 posted on 01/27/2005 10:15:43 AM PST by iconoclast (Conservative, not partisan.)
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To: Petronski; MEG33; cyborg
I'm surprised and curious that, of all the titles she could have chosen, titles that would sum up and express her thoughts on the speech, her focus is on 'way too much God'. Does this reflect a departure for her in a larger sense?

"It is the policy of the United States to seek and support the growth of democratic movements and institutions in every nation and culture, with the ultimate goal of ending tyranny in the world." Ending tyranny in the world? Well that's an ambition, and if you're going to have an ambition it might as well be a big one. But this declaration, which is not wrong by any means, seemed to me to land somewhere between dreamy and disturbing.

Isn't this just what Reagan proposed to do? Didn't Reagan tackle the gigantic jobs of freeing the hostages and then crumbling communism? Seemingly apocalyptic tasks, yet Reagan moved ahead confidently and tackled domestic issues as well. He didn't end tyranny in the whole world in 8 years, but he sure made a giant change in the lives of millions. And the President named the 'ultimate' goal. Does she not get the idea that it is an ultimate, eventual goal for our country, and one held by our country, not just him, for a very long time. No one is so naive to think that he, while acting as our president, can wipe out all tyranny in the whole world in 4 years or less. Yet she implies he is that naive.

Laura Bush's beauty has grown more obvious; she was chic in shades of white, and smiled warmly. The Bush daughters looked exactly as they are, beautiful and young. A well-behaved city was on its best behavior, everyone from cops to doormen to journalists eager to help visitors in any way.

I agree with her. The Bush ladies are beautiful, gracious, and elegant. They bring an air of sophistication to the White House that is clearly contagious. One that was missing for 8 or so years prior to their arrival. Quite different from the previous administration

And I really enjoyed the musical selections and performers. It was classy and if it seemed odd, it was only because the references to God and other beautiful, classical music have been so absent and even derided in recent years, again, especially during the last administration.

265 posted on 01/27/2005 10:17:31 AM PST by fortunecookie
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To: iconoclast
Well I know comic relief when I see it that is for sure.

My strongest suit? NAW- I don't think you would recognize my strong suit....

266 posted on 01/27/2005 10:18:23 AM PST by Diva Betsy Ross (Just say no to the ACLU!)
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To: FBD

Nope, she engaged in hyperbolic overreach, exactly the kind of thing that she accused Bush of, and with her honor challenged she isn't going to back down.

Note how annoyed she is at the insults that were leveled at her. It is rather revealing.


267 posted on 01/27/2005 10:52:34 AM PST by swilhelm73 (Appeasers believe that if you keep on throwing steaks to a tiger, the tiger will become a vegetarian)
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To: Popman
Peggy is great, she just had a bad day. We all do once in a while.

This isn't one bad day. This column reinforces her first bad day. So now it's a slump, one which I truly hope does not become permanent.

268 posted on 01/27/2005 11:07:38 AM PST by Colonel_Flagg ("I speak Spanish to God, French to women, English to men, and Japanese to my horse."-Buckaroo Banzai)
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To: fortunecookie

Isn't it curious that after blaming her editor for the "Too Much God" title to her last column, she comes back with this "Sourpuss? Moi?" title. While the first could be excused, this one cannot. She is obviously flipping off her readers and critics. I don't live on the Upper West Side. I'm just a small town guy. But I detect a bit of an attitude from ol' Peggy. Stick a fork in her . . . She's done.


269 posted on 01/27/2005 11:36:09 AM PST by Don'tMessWithTexas
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To: Southern Federalist

Excellent review of "she said he said/he really said"..

Thank you!


270 posted on 01/27/2005 11:38:51 AM PST by MEG33 (GOD BLESS OUR ARMED FORCES)
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To: Don'tMessWithTexas

I have to agree. She really is letting us know what's what, and us 'little' people should just be quiet and listen. Hmmm. A departure from her past thinking. She was wonderful as a speechwriter for Reagan, and I guess some of us just assumed she still espoused those beliefs. Maybe she never really did. I'm not sure many on the Upper West Side will be able to tolerate her new uppity-ness either. I agree, a wee bit o' attitude from her. When I saw 'Moi?' and 'Peggy', I couldn't help but think to myself (with a giggle, hee hee) that she reminded me just a little of Miss Piggy. (Maybe that's not fair to Miss Piggy...)


271 posted on 01/27/2005 12:45:07 PM PST by fortunecookie
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To: bellevuesbest

I agree with Peggy Noonan that the president's talk about freedom was, in some ways, unrealistic. The president seems to have an idea that if the dictators are knocked down and people are allowed to vote, what is right will prevail. I thought this idea was central to his Inaugural Address. But I believe it is wrong, and it is dangerous to base a policy on a bad idea.

The problem with the right-will-prevail-with-free-elections assumption is: People are bad. All people are bad. The very best--the saints of the human race--have a little sin in them. And it just goes down from there. The badness in the human race is undeniable.

Furthermore, people can be fooled into electing a bad leader. Didn't 1992 and 1996 prove that to all conservatives? More seriously, Hitler was democratically elected. That should never be forgotten. A majority of a nation can come to such a point that it will, of its own will, put a person like Hitler in office.

A democracy is only as good as its people. And if the people are bad enough, it will stop being a democracy altogether. Germany democratically elected Hitler--and soon was a democracy no longer. And look at Europe today. The liberty is fading there as socialist governments grow. And the socialists in those governments are elected. (Incidentally--or maybe not--the slide of these three things--Christianity, morality, and liberty--coincided.) You may destroy dictatorships and give people free elections--and then those people may elect dictators.


272 posted on 01/27/2005 1:30:49 PM PST by Irish Rose ("And I learned with little labour/to love my fellow-man, and hate my next-door neighbor...")
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To: fortunecookie

Piggy Noonan?


273 posted on 01/27/2005 2:35:04 PM PST by Don'tMessWithTexas
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To: Southern Federalist

thanks for the best, most RATIONAL analysis of the discrepancies between Ms. Noonan's analysis of the speech and its actual content ... and kindly treatment of her as a long time, valued conservative who at the moment seems a bit off kilter.


274 posted on 01/27/2005 2:45:57 PM PST by EDINVA (a FReeper in PJ's beats a CBS anchor in a suit every time)
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To: bellevuesbest
all is lost! Peggy Noonan is doubtless a closet lesbian who had an abortion and secretly owns a porn store. She has dared criticize the president and EVERYONE knows that a true conservative just cannot do that!

Sigh

Peggy Noonan is a classy lady and a thoughtful journalist. I swear, some of the unthinking dweebs here on FR make me feel like this is just the mirror image of DU. Same shrill accusatory nonsens, same hysterical reactionism, same groupthink...., just from the right, rather than the left.

Look, I love President Bush and I pray for him every day. I love our troops in Iraq and I pray for their success. I also think it is a tremendous mistake for us to be there and I wish we were not. I think the best way for us to defend terrorism abroad is NOT to piss off 1 billion Muslims but to control our own borders and be vigilant about the lunatics we let in, while sniffing out and shipping back the first HINT of illegal activity we get with imigrants. Stationing our troops in 145 countries around the world seems plain silly to me.

Peggy Noonan is just saying the obvious....., we cannot police nor run the world, and overreach could be more detrimental than we think. I agree with her. How in God's name this makes her "disloyal" is beyond me.
275 posted on 01/27/2005 2:46:49 PM PST by chronic_loser (The mindless violence of 99% of Muslims give a bad name to the rest of Islam)
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To: MEG33
Some people have no capacity for self governance and must be led by authoritarian means or tyrants.

That was the popular opinion about blacks, and women in the 19th century. Seem to recall something in the Declaration about being "endowed by the Creator with certain inalienable rights...."
276 posted on 01/27/2005 2:51:24 PM PST by Kozak (Anti Shahada: " There is no God named Allah, and Muhammed is his False Prophet")
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To: Kozak

Peggy seems to have lost her way.


277 posted on 01/27/2005 2:53:52 PM PST by MEG33 (GOD BLESS OUR ARMED FORCES)
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To: chronic_loser

#256


278 posted on 01/27/2005 2:57:45 PM PST by MEG33 (GOD BLESS OUR ARMED FORCES)
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To: RobFromGa

"It is not a stupid point, she makes the point herself that she worked for the campaign (at financial loss- sour grapes)"

More stupdity. She worked as a *volunteer* for the Bush campaign, to help out any way she could. She left her job at WSJ so there would be no conflict of interest. Pretty pathetic how you would twist that into something sour.

Jealousy indeed.


279 posted on 01/27/2005 3:08:19 PM PST by Fenris6 (3 Purple Hearts in 4 months w/o missing a day of work? He's either John Rambo or a Fraud)
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To: MEG33
thanks for the very appropriate analysis, of the speech, of Noonan's piece, and of Noonan. All three were nice, and classier than my frustration with the freepers.

as an aside, nothing was NEW in Bush's speech. It was, in fact, almost a mirror image of a speech he made in Texas when still governor of TX. the reason? He had the same speechwriter then as now. I am too lazy to google the guy's name, but his earlier speeches are given to high flying rhetoric, shades of truimphalism and universalism.

Peggy is old and scared? So am I. I am an isolationist and am increasingly skeptical of our ability to project our will on other peoples.

As a final note: I really DO understand Bush's assertion that the desire for freedom is divinely implanted in ALL men. I, as he, believe that men are stamped with the image of our Creator. However, it is also true that "common grace" makes some cultures able to sustain gov'ts predicated on this freedom, and the absence of this makes other cultures immediately descend into a morass of cruelty, nepotism, corruption and anarchy, even when provided with the external trapping of democratic freedom. That is the "other side of the coin" that I believe is neglected and will come back to bite us in our attempt to foist Jeffersonian Democracy on the Muslim world.

I sincerely hope I am wrong.
280 posted on 01/27/2005 3:08:29 PM PST by chronic_loser (The mindless violence of 99% of Muslims give a bad name to the rest of Islam)
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