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Web site to reveal salaries (teachers' salaries)
Times Leader ^ | 1/22/2005 | BONNIE ADAMS

Posted on 01/22/2005 7:19:22 PM PST by Born Conservative

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To: Javelina
Well, actually I haven't whined about my job so I'm not sure what you mean by "you folks." But, hey, I was just trying to help you from looking like a crazy person by typing random rants in capital letters. But feel free to do whatever you want; just like you can feel free to work at a crappy job (at least you aren't whining about it).

I have a dream job...sorry you don't.

61 posted on 01/22/2005 11:27:33 PM PST by paulat
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To: henderson field
"I'm sure you know that "No Child Left Behind" is federal code for "All Children Left Behind" since it is geared to the lowest common denominator."

Actually, its the public education system that's geared to the least common denominator. The NCLB is simply written to deal with the realities of the failing system they're trying to salvage.
62 posted on 01/22/2005 11:28:48 PM PST by RavenATB
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To: arjay
In addition, the schools are requiring her to pay several thousand dollars for additional classes that do nothing to improve the quality of teaching. The money, however, does enrich the local state universities

Those are tax deductible.

63 posted on 01/22/2005 11:53:09 PM PST by Centurion2000 (Nations do not survive by setting examples for others. Nations survive by making examples of others)
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To: arjay
All true -- and nearly irrelevant to the problem. Due to the teacher unions, lack of competition, and the toxic legacy of Deweyite principles, the US has the most expensive, least productive, and worst elementary and secondary school system in the developed world.

Good teachers are of little consequence because their efforts are subverted; and the relative lack of teaching options outside of local public schools makes them captive to a bad system. Even worse, most good teachers are utterly supine when it comes to opposing teacher unions, flawed curricula, and administrative incompetence.

I have a cousin who was a dedicated, award winning elementary school teacher, but she then got a research and teaching post at the local university. My cousin scorns the teacher unions as the refuge of the incapable and lazy and an impediment to good teaching. But she would no more try to fight the teacher unions and bad administrators than she would chose to take on a pack of pit bulls with her bare hands. Rather than fight, she made her escape to a better professional niche.

Meanwhile, home-schooling is booming due to the return of women to childrearing, the decline of public schools, and advances in computer technology. In time, as more and more of the public detaches the future of their children from the public school system, we are likely to get a two tier educational system: the top rung will be homeschooled and nonpublic school kids, with the dross consigned to hopelessly dysfunctional public schools.
64 posted on 01/23/2005 12:47:41 AM PST by Rockingham
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To: RavenATB

Your accusation of whining is utterly ridiculous. I did not say my wife was complaining of the expenses, nor was she whining about it. I merely stated that the salary alone is not the whole picture.

A lot of you people are so warped by the NEA that you cannot see that there are excellent individual teachers that work very hard and do a good job even in the public schools.

It is one thing to whine and complain about how terrible one's pay is or how bad one's work conditions are, and it is quite another to realistically state what the situation is.

I know some excellent teachers and I know some lousy ones. I do get tired of people lumping all teachers together in the NEA pot and failing to recognize the good ones.


65 posted on 01/23/2005 4:53:17 AM PST by arjay (If the NYT is against it, it must be good for America.)
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To: RavenATB

Your accusation of whining is utterly ridiculous. I did not say my wife was complaining of the expenses, nor was she whining about it. I merely stated that the salary alone is not the whole picture.

A lot of you people are so warped by the NEA that you cannot see that there are excellent individual teachers that work very hard and do a good job even in the public schools.

It is one thing to whine and complain about how terrible one's pay is or how bad one's work conditions are, and it is quite another to realistically state what the situation is.

I know some excellent teachers and I know some lousy ones. I do get tired of people lumping all teachers together in the NEA pot and failing to recognize the good ones.


66 posted on 01/23/2005 4:53:19 AM PST by arjay (If the NYT is against it, it must be good for America.)
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To: arjay

Sorry for the double post.


67 posted on 01/23/2005 4:55:55 AM PST by arjay (If the NYT is against it, it must be good for America.)
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To: RandDisciple

"There has also been a study that showed education majors have the lowest entering SAT scores of any other majors at most colleges."

I saw that study several years ago but I've forgotten where and I'd love to have a source to cite. Do you have one?

BTW, as I remember the two lowest SAT scores were education and journalism. I believe the study also rated the difficulties of the course curriculum in these two majors as the lowest too.


68 posted on 01/23/2005 5:03:51 AM PST by DugwayDuke
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To: Born Conservative

.....of $20,000 for additional academic credits.....

Plastic Masters Degrees issued by plastic state teachers colleges taught by plastic college instructors. What a racket.


69 posted on 01/23/2005 5:04:13 AM PST by bert (Don't Panic.....)
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To: arjay
Do teachers work hard? Sure they do. So does everyone else.

Is teaching an important job in society? Sure. But so are most other jobs.

Are teachers under-paid? Not really.

Is there any reason teacher's salaries ought not be public knowledge? None at all, except that it would destroy the illusion that the teachers themselves have created {They ARE Teachers After all}, that teachers are vastly under paid.

70 posted on 01/23/2005 5:08:27 AM PST by 9999lakes
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To: zeugma

I also think they should make all public employees (including senators and other mooches) take drug screening tests on a regular basis. The unions should have to pay for them. For elected officials, the cost should come out of their own pockets.


71 posted on 01/23/2005 5:10:35 AM PST by AD from SpringBay (We have the government we allow and deserve.)
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To: groanup
In Georgia, teachers retire when they are 55 years old with almost 90% of their salary. That blisters me. They should have to work until they are 65. Can you imagine the reduction in our teachers' costs?

Actually, it's 30 years service or age 60, whichever comes first. Given my most recent retirement statement, you're mistaken about that "almost 90% of salary" however.

But hey, you think it's a good deal? Georgia has Fast Track, if you have at least a bachelor's degree. Become a teacher, and you too can "retire at 55"....

72 posted on 01/23/2005 5:14:13 AM PST by Amelia
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To: 9999lakes

I have not one single time said that teachers' salaries should not or could not be made public.

I did not state that teachers were underpaid. Some are, and some are not. I have not said that teachers should not be held accountable.

Unfortunately districts, administrations, unions, state education officials and parents are not as accountable as they should be. They let lousy teachers continue to teach and children suffer for it. They also undermine the creativity and effectiveness of good teachers and make it more difficult for good teachers to work.

The problem is not simply teachers, but they make nice scapegoats.


For crying out loud, some of you people are utterly unreasonable.


73 posted on 01/23/2005 5:20:22 AM PST by arjay (If the NYT is against it, it must be good for America.)
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To: arjay

I agree that it is the administration and union leadership that reaps the big bucks, not the teachers. Blame for the lousy public school system lies at the feet of the unions in bed with the various government agencies who set educational standards, award contracts, and so on.

It is not that easy for teachers to change their union, thanks to the partnership mentioned above. And it is the union-government stronghold that keeps public education crappy and expensive.

Getting politicians to approve "vouchers" (aka give back the money that already belongs to you) would be a great first start. But even some Pubbies are against vouchers.


74 posted on 01/23/2005 5:21:35 AM PST by Puddleglum (Thank God the Boston blowhard lost)
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To: esoxmagnum
Teachers who do not perform job functions are just left alone because they cannot be fired.

Yes, they can. Sometimes the administrators don't want to go through the hassle of documenting the reason for the firing.

Teachers here in Illinois do not work late. In fact, they even give off days of school to hold Parent Teacher conferences (heaven forbid the teacher would have to stay late a few nights a week like they used to).

At my school, we do both, but we find more parents will actually come to conferences on a specified conference day.

If you think it's a waste of time, why don't you contact your local school board? Notice that in most states, the students still have to be at school at least 180 days per year, so it's not actually giving the teachers any "time off".

Teachers don't even have to drive to school when it snows, they have snow days. The parents are 1,000 students are supposed to find alternatives to watch their children or take a day off of work, because a teacher doesn't have the education to get his/her car out of the driveway (in Chicago where we have plows....)

More likely, the school system doesn't want to be sued if a bus skids, or some teenager driving to work has an accident, etc.

I'm sorry, but it sounds as if your biggest problem with the schools is that they aren't dependable year-round baby sitters.

75 posted on 01/23/2005 5:24:38 AM PST by Amelia
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To: paulat
You are SO out-of-touch! If you want to keep yourself current, yeah, the company might spring...but if you want to advance yourself...for the most part...you're on your own. Find out how much YOUR company will pay for your MBA.

Well, it has been almost 15 years since I was in the corporate world. Things may have changed since I began teaching school.

At that time, my company paid for 100% of my expenses for required training. If I decided to advance myself by taking optional courses, the reimbursement depended upon my final grade - 90% for an A, 80% for a B, 70% for a C, and nothing for a D or lower.

76 posted on 01/23/2005 5:29:44 AM PST by Amelia
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To: RavenATB
I'm fascinated. I used to teach school, and I was a salaried professional. I didn't have "hours." I worked what time was required to get my work done...regardless if it cut into my evenings or weekends.

Since when does a "salaried professional" have hours and overtime? And, just what were your "hours"?

At every school I've ever seen, teachers are supposed to be on campus 15-30 minutes before the students arrive, and are supposed to stay at least 15-30 minutes after the students are dismissed.

You are correct that most teachers (at least the ones I know) work the number of hours required to get the work done, even if it cuts into "personal time."

Apparently, when the employer begins requiring one to sign in and out, to insure that a minimum number of hours are worked, one ceases to be a "salaried professional" and becomes an hourly employee subject to overtime. It's the law.

77 posted on 01/23/2005 5:40:10 AM PST by Amelia
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To: Born Conservative
union representative John Holland called the move "offensive and irresponsible."

You know you're doing something right when the union reps and lawyers are PO'd.

78 posted on 01/23/2005 5:47:16 AM PST by Fruitbat
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To: kitty_wilson_esquire
The teachers that I know leave home at 7:15AM and return at 6:30PM (with a one way 15-20 minute commute). Most work 1-2 hours in the evening grading papers and setting up for the next day.

Clearly you aren't in Pennsylvania! I live 2 blocks from one of our elementary schools (and across the street from an elementary teacher), and about 5 blocks from a middle school. The teachers not there at 0730 - they are pulling in with the buses. They're also leaving with the buses in the afternoon. The only cars around after 4:30 or so are the night janitors. When they have Back-to-School night for parents, the teachers whoosh us out the door so they can get out to the post-parents night parties.

While there are some dedicated teachers who know each students abilities because they spend alot of time grading papers, they are by far the minority. In most of my kids classes the students graded each others papers, and you had to appeal to the teacher if you thought you were graded wrong.

In the middle school and high school, with 8 class periods a day plus lunch, the teachers teach 4-5 class periods a day (that includes any study halls they have to cover), and don't have 'lunch duty'.

Last I looked our AVERAGE teacher salary was about $62,000/year, with the max up around $88,000. They only have to pay for supplies if it's something the school didn't buy ahead and have on hand.

Clearly, there are very wide variations across the country in what teachers are paid, what they do for their money, and how they are treated. Unfortunately, there aren't any easy answers to that. We need to have our school boards be more transparent about negotiations (as the School District in this article is), and have the tax-paying citizens be more vocal about what is appropriate.

Did I mention that our school district embarked on a massive rebuilding program a couple of years ago? They are replacing ALL schools older than 30 years or so. Since many of our buildings were built in the late 50's and early 60's, I just have a hard time seeing them as unserviceable. It's more about the school board wanting the best of everything, and not getting enough outrage from the tax-payers.

79 posted on 01/23/2005 5:48:09 AM PST by Kay Ludlow (Free market, but cautious about what I support with my dollars)
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To: festus
Yup the country is going to pot ;-)
80 posted on 01/23/2005 5:54:21 AM PST by pageonetoo (I could name them, but you'll spot their posts soon enough.)
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