Posted on 01/22/2005 1:27:28 PM PST by foolscap
>"Wouldn't a very good teacher design the course so that the best students would be 'raised' above the average students?"
That course?....
It's CALLED: "GRADUATE SCHOOL."
>" They either get the Questions right or not. It is very possible for an entire class to ace every test, with a very good teacher."
...Right on, freedumb '03! EXACTLY...
I generally agree with you that grades should reflect the level of mastery of the material rather than some 'rank order' within a particular class. For that reason, I have always thought that grading on a curve did a disservice to both the students and those who had to try to make sense of the grades.
For example, in curve grading, two teachers teaching an identical subject should come out with essentially similar grades -- even if in one class almost everyone demonstrated substantial mastery of the material and in the other the range was from abysmal ignorance of the material to mediocre mastery of the material. In such a world, how could you ever compare grades between different sections of the same course, or between different curricula (e.g. engineering vs. sociology), or between colleges. Clearly, you could not. All an "A" would mean was that you were among the better students in the class. But, "better" doesn't necessarily mean good, or even adequate.
Therefore, if grades have any useful meaning at all, it is to distinguish the level of mastery of the material taught. There will always be material that is easier for some people than others, and always material that is generally agreed to be hard (e.g. advanced mathematics) and material that is generally agreed to be easy (e.g. 'communications').
Amen. Go, Cato!!
Seesh, some people are so simple in their responses. Try again.
The topic here is grade inflation, and the point I'm trying to make is that there are a few students in most classes who are far above average in their abilities, and or study habits. They deserve recognition for the results they provide.
Just to go on record here, with very few and small exceptions, that would have excluded me, and justly so.
The "we're ALL winners here" mentality should be reserved for the DUmmies.
I went to a state school and worked my tail off to get good grades. In 8 semesters, I only made Dean's List the last 2. To make Dean's List you needed to rank in the top 20% of your college for that semester as well as get no grade lower than a B.
The school of education and the college of liberal arts were widely known to hand out As to anyone who showed up for class and made an "effort." That meant that the cutoff for Dean's List for that school was be between a 3.95 and a 4.0 every semester. I went to my required Philosophy class a total of three times and somehow still got an A- for the semester. Utterly pathetic and grade inflation was rampant.
I was in the school of engineering, and the Dean's List cutoff would range from a 3.4 to a 3.6. I somehow managed a 3.56 and a 3.72 my last 2 semesters, and before that always was between 3.0 and 3.3. It was much harder to earn the grades to make Dean's List in the school of engineering and the school of nursing, in particular.
It was significant enough that the school of engineering offered a free ride for grad school plus a stipend, for any graduate of their undergrad program who had a 2.8 GPA or better. For those who did their undergrad at another school, the requirement for such a good aid package was a 3.4!
OK. That's the second time today my post went over in exactly opposite the way I intended.
I liked your post and specifically admired the phrasing. That's why I quoted it.
It's clearly me at fault here since two separate people with different posting styles got the wrong message. I'm off for tonight.
No problem. Thanks for the compliment too.
"And the chance of this would be?"
Do you have any idea of what it takes to get into Princeton?
"that may be because of the generation that I came from."
Or it may be because you did not go to an elite college of have kids who went to an elite college.
I can't answer that question unless I know the applicant's sex and race and all the other BS factors that admissions offices consider these days that are unrelated to academic potential.
That said, I am well aware of how competitive Princeton is for those truly chosen for their academic promise.
"I'm surrounded by bright, intelligent students who work hard, know how to study, and want to be there."
And much more true is that at a law school like Yale or Harvard?
I don't support that.
If I was a teacher, I wouldn't grade inflate, but if they all earned A's, I'd give everyone an A. Same with D's.
You either know the answers and can back up your arguements or not.
LOL That too
No- I agree: We're NOT all "winners" here -- that's for socialists.
The recognition they deserve --- is to be immediately allowed to SKIP GRADES, and go directly to college, or, even Graduate School.
That was my point -- apparently, it was missed
That was my point -- apparently, it was missed
I did miss it. That's a good solution.
Informative article.........wonder how that will affect "F"?
What would you give the average student in this class?........Mrs Mark
That would depend on what the so-called "average" student scored.
Let's say that you have a class composed entirely of Type A personality geniuses that are all given the same extremely difficult, objective and fair test.
Let's say that one third of the class scores 98% on that test, one third of the class scores 97% on that test and one third of the class scores 96% on that test.
In such a case, every last student in that class deserves an "A" even though one half of them are "below average" in terms of that particular class.
The bottom line is that you have to consider not only the "Rank in Class" but also the quality of the competition.
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