Posted on 01/22/2005 1:27:28 PM PST by foolscap
PRINCETON, N.J. (AP) - For students at Princeton University, final exams are even more stressful this year: The Ivy League school decided to make it harder to earn an A. The crackdown on high grades, part of a national battle against grade inflation at elite schools, has increased anxiety, and in some cases, made friendly students wonder whether they should offer study help to their competitors, er, classmates.
"Sometimes, your old high school mentality comes back to haunt you," said Monica Saumoy, recalling the cutthroat competition to get the grades she needed to get into Princeton.
As she studied for an organic chemistry exam in a coffee shop last week, the sophomore and aspiring doctor said she's doing her best to remain cooperative with her peers as they all aim for high grades. "You don't want to stop helping people," she said.
But they all know those A's aren't going to be as plentiful.
In a move students protested last year, Princeton became the first elite college to cap the number of A's that can be awarded.
Previously, there was no official limit to the number of A's handed out, and nearly half the grades in an average Princeton class have been A-pluses, A's or A-minuses. Now, each department can give A's to no more than 35 percent of its students each semester.
Princeton's effort is being monitored closely by other hallowed halls, and some expect to see a ripple effect in coming years.
At other Ivy League schools, the percentages of A's in undergraduates courses ranges from 44 percent to 55 percent, according to Princeton's Web site. At Harvard University, 91 percent of seniors graduated with some kind of honors in 2001.
If the reaction of Princeton students is any indication, limiting honors may mean sharper elbows. Princeton students - never exactly slackers - have been studying even harder this semester, said Tom Brown, executive secretary of the student government.
"You do feel you might be one of the ones they just cut off," said Natasha Gopaul, a senior at Princeton's Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs.
Grade inflation seems to date to the Vietnam War era, when many professors were reluctant to flunk students and consign them to the draft. Other factors made it snowball, including tuition increases that have convinced some students and parents that good grades are an entitlement.
The problem tends to feed on itself; if one department or school is doing it, others are under pressure to follow, or risk putting their students at a disadvantage.
Several schools have made efforts to rein in ballooning grade point averages. Starting this year, Harvard will limit the number of students who can graduate with honors. Northwestern University set up a committee to study grade inflation at its journalism school.
In 1997, Duke flirted with adopting a complex class-ranking system formula that would have made an A in a class taught by a professor who gives a lot of A's worth less than one in a class taught by a stingier faculty member.
Valen E. Johnson, the Duke professor who designed that system and went on to write the 2003 book, "Grade Inflation: A Crisis in College Education," doesn't like Princeton's new system.
"There's a danger that they're going to drive students away from classes perceived as being competitive," said Johnson, now a professor at the University of Texas' MD Anderson Cancer Center in Houston.
Students are particularly worried about having fewer A's given out in upper-level classes.
"Especially if there are only five people in a class," said Jon Epstein, a junior computer science major from Cleveland, "It will create more competition to get A's."
Princeton officials will send letters to about 3,000 graduate schools and employers to explain the new grading standards - helping assuage students' fears about losing out to students at other elite schools where grades aren't being held in check.
Saumoy, the pre-med student, remains nervous. "I've heard that med schools don't really care what school you came from," she said.
>"Wouldn't a very good teacher design the course so that the best students would be 'raised' above the average students?"
That course?....
It's CALLED: "GRADUATE SCHOOL."
>" They either get the Questions right or not. It is very possible for an entire class to ace every test, with a very good teacher."
...Right on, freedumb '03! EXACTLY...
I generally agree with you that grades should reflect the level of mastery of the material rather than some 'rank order' within a particular class. For that reason, I have always thought that grading on a curve did a disservice to both the students and those who had to try to make sense of the grades.
For example, in curve grading, two teachers teaching an identical subject should come out with essentially similar grades -- even if in one class almost everyone demonstrated substantial mastery of the material and in the other the range was from abysmal ignorance of the material to mediocre mastery of the material. In such a world, how could you ever compare grades between different sections of the same course, or between different curricula (e.g. engineering vs. sociology), or between colleges. Clearly, you could not. All an "A" would mean was that you were among the better students in the class. But, "better" doesn't necessarily mean good, or even adequate.
Therefore, if grades have any useful meaning at all, it is to distinguish the level of mastery of the material taught. There will always be material that is easier for some people than others, and always material that is generally agreed to be hard (e.g. advanced mathematics) and material that is generally agreed to be easy (e.g. 'communications').
Amen. Go, Cato!!
Seesh, some people are so simple in their responses. Try again.
The topic here is grade inflation, and the point I'm trying to make is that there are a few students in most classes who are far above average in their abilities, and or study habits. They deserve recognition for the results they provide.
Just to go on record here, with very few and small exceptions, that would have excluded me, and justly so.
The "we're ALL winners here" mentality should be reserved for the DUmmies.
I went to a state school and worked my tail off to get good grades. In 8 semesters, I only made Dean's List the last 2. To make Dean's List you needed to rank in the top 20% of your college for that semester as well as get no grade lower than a B.
The school of education and the college of liberal arts were widely known to hand out As to anyone who showed up for class and made an "effort." That meant that the cutoff for Dean's List for that school was be between a 3.95 and a 4.0 every semester. I went to my required Philosophy class a total of three times and somehow still got an A- for the semester. Utterly pathetic and grade inflation was rampant.
I was in the school of engineering, and the Dean's List cutoff would range from a 3.4 to a 3.6. I somehow managed a 3.56 and a 3.72 my last 2 semesters, and before that always was between 3.0 and 3.3. It was much harder to earn the grades to make Dean's List in the school of engineering and the school of nursing, in particular.
It was significant enough that the school of engineering offered a free ride for grad school plus a stipend, for any graduate of their undergrad program who had a 2.8 GPA or better. For those who did their undergrad at another school, the requirement for such a good aid package was a 3.4!
OK. That's the second time today my post went over in exactly opposite the way I intended.
I liked your post and specifically admired the phrasing. That's why I quoted it.
It's clearly me at fault here since two separate people with different posting styles got the wrong message. I'm off for tonight.
No problem. Thanks for the compliment too.
"And the chance of this would be?"
Do you have any idea of what it takes to get into Princeton?
"that may be because of the generation that I came from."
Or it may be because you did not go to an elite college of have kids who went to an elite college.
I can't answer that question unless I know the applicant's sex and race and all the other BS factors that admissions offices consider these days that are unrelated to academic potential.
That said, I am well aware of how competitive Princeton is for those truly chosen for their academic promise.
"I'm surrounded by bright, intelligent students who work hard, know how to study, and want to be there."
And much more true is that at a law school like Yale or Harvard?
I don't support that.
If I was a teacher, I wouldn't grade inflate, but if they all earned A's, I'd give everyone an A. Same with D's.
You either know the answers and can back up your arguements or not.
LOL That too
No- I agree: We're NOT all "winners" here -- that's for socialists.
The recognition they deserve --- is to be immediately allowed to SKIP GRADES, and go directly to college, or, even Graduate School.
That was my point -- apparently, it was missed
That was my point -- apparently, it was missed
I did miss it. That's a good solution.
Informative article.........wonder how that will affect "F"?
What would you give the average student in this class?........Mrs Mark
That would depend on what the so-called "average" student scored.
Let's say that you have a class composed entirely of Type A personality geniuses that are all given the same extremely difficult, objective and fair test.
Let's say that one third of the class scores 98% on that test, one third of the class scores 97% on that test and one third of the class scores 96% on that test.
In such a case, every last student in that class deserves an "A" even though one half of them are "below average" in terms of that particular class.
The bottom line is that you have to consider not only the "Rank in Class" but also the quality of the competition.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.