Posted on 01/21/2005 3:21:06 PM PST by goldstategop
Doncha know? Freedom obsession is just a fancy way of saying we will spread the neocon Bush "hitlerism" across the many peace loving, innocent, downtrodden nations of the world, where we are commiting genocide of, now say it with me now, EEEE-slam! Also, our ill founded hatred of Socialist World Revolution and empowerment of, now say it with me now, the PEEEE-pull, who, wanting nothing more than peace and social justice, have never posed a threat to the USA, demonstrates that the capitalist running dogs want to o-PRESS the prolitariat, and starve out the people of color. Yeah, I know all about this "freedom" - just like 1984 man, freedom means slavery, and, the World Revolution will set you free! /sarcasm ..... Bbbbbllllrrrcccchhhh....ulllcchh.... baaaaaaarrrrfsplaaattt.
(Sorry about that last little bit, I guess I made myself a bit ill trying to spew that screed out with a straight face! :=)
Bravo! But, don't you understand, it isn't the same as the Soviets imposing Communism on other countries. We are better people. It's all about the motive. These people just don't know any better so we will be paternalistic and help them find the true path in the new American order. This is almost the foreign policy equivalent of hate crimes legislation and is sort of the logical extension of the recent Supreme Court decision regarding conspiracies, i.e. that you don't have to take a concrete action toward forwarding the goal of the conspiracy in order to be guilty. Now, you don't actually have to take a threatening action against the US. You just have to think bad thoughts. In any case, it still remains to be seen how global this new policy is. After all, the original Bush doctrine of being able to defend yourself against terrorism doesn't apply to Israel. And as I've said before, you can be certain that we won't be dumping those beacons of "democracy" (China, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia) any time soon. We are too dependent on China to make too many waves about human rights abuses, Pakistan is still carrying on the half-hearted hunt for bin Laden and Saudi Arabia has all that nice oil. However, just the proposition of such an interventionalist foreign policy is troubling, not to mention the sheep mentality of Republicans in endorsing it.
OK, I'll bite. If we are not consistent in insisting on the roll back of totalitarian, anti western and other such formations, in *all* places, including Communist Red China, then we would be rightfully accused of being half assed. But, let me challenge you with this. Given what we learned about trying to appease and negotiate with (as well as ignore and isolate ourselves from) totalitarianism, during the 20th century, what are we to do? The totalitarian disease is still out there. It is only a matter of time before it metastatizes once again. Do we wait for it to do so, possibly until it's too late, and end up possibly being conquered? Or, do we go out boldly now and try our level best to eradicate it?
To Summarize (IMHO):
With God, you have a belief that Life, Liberty and the Persuit of happiness are inalienable rights.
Without God, you lack clarity of mind to determine what is in your best interest and are therefore vulnerable to the schemes of charlatans.
In a nutshell, God's presence or lack thereof in the mind of the voter is the single most infuential factor in determining the balance of political power between those who would protect freedom and liberty and those who would seek to remove the institutions that protect freedom and liberty in hopes of securing forever, a tyranny.
The leadership on the left IS THIS calculating.
Eddie01
New tagline, courtesy of Rush
Simply calling attention, naming the unfree will make progress. Remember when the Soviets began to fall apart.... when Reagan called them the evil empire! The internal contradictions and the evil of their system became apparent. Freedom's power!
Natan Sharansky knew better. Lech Walenska knew better. Israel has done a pretty good job of fixing its problem, terrorist leader, by terrorist leader, without much discussion by us. Its pretty quiet now in Gaza isn't it?
What we do is tend to our own affairs and leave the rest of the world to theirs. I am not saying that we do not encourage the formation of democratic governments in other countries. What we don't do is interfere in the internal affairs of other countries. We would certainly be rightfully offended if other countries or the UN attempted to interfere in our internal affairs. Simply because our motives are better (in our own eyes) doesn't make the interference any less permissible. This speech takes the pre-emptive doctrine to its logical conclusion....now we aren't just preventing hostile regimes from attacking us by removing their capability to do so. Now we will be working against governments based on their attitudes toward us without needing covert action against us. If we are justified in, as you put it, going out boldly now and trying our level best to eradicate a philosophy we find repugnant, then we cannot claim that Islamofascists are any less justified in trying to wipe us out simply because we find them repugnant. We become them.
Just curious, have you ever read "The Origins of Totalitarianism" by Arendt? If not, I recommend it.
I'm sorry, what other sovereign country did Lech Walesa invade? If I'm not mistaken, he was concerned with the events in his own country. And once having helped to institute that change in his own country, I don't recall him trying to forcibly export that change outside of his own borders, which is what we now propose to do, benevolently if possible, but by arms if necessary. Same question for Natan Sharansky. Is freedom forcibly imposed really freedom? Or is it just a more benevolent form of totalitarianism. For example, what do we do if, in the unlikely event it happens, the Iraqis elect a Sunni government? Do we fail to recognize it's legitimacy and keep holding elections or recounting votes until we get a government we like (as they apparently do in Washington state?) Or do we recognize that life is a risky proposition and that part of the risk of having free will and freedom is the possibility of making wrong choices? Do we instead concentrate on fixing our northern and southern borders which leak like sieves to the extent that we are now searching for 16 potential terrorists headed for Boston? One can only shudder to thing what they might have shipped in before hand in the cargo that still isn't routinely inspected over 3 years after 9/11. Instead of worrying about spreading democracy, maybe we could actually get a Transportation secretary who will let the airports screen people based on the profiles of the mass murderers already known instead of blackmailing the airlines with massive fines for attempting to actually take a logical concrete step. And again, how will we explain the selectivity of this new policy? Because we already know that certain nations like China, Pakistan et al. will be exempted. Do we have a lottery to see which one we choose to export democracy to first?
Yes and it is irrelevant to my point. We weren't elected God of the world to regulate the governmental systems of other sovereign nations. If they pose an imminent threat of attack toward us, then we may have justification for removing that threat. We can certainly encourage as much as possible freedom movements in other countries. We do not have the right, however, to export anything other than the example of republican government to anyone. And while we're at it, why don't we try to actually have a republic again and get that actually up and running before we think about exporting anything to other sovereign nations?
Was 1941 the right time to get into WW2? Or would 1936 have been better? Or, not at all?
If we had intervened in 1935 - we might have averted the slaughter of millions. Fortunately, we are not going to make the mistake of watching an enemy becoming too powerful to threaten us again. We can't impose freedom by force of arms but we don't aspire to dominate the world like the Romans did. The power of our example should be enough to inspire those who seek liberty to come to love it as much as we do.
Learn to live with what?
Shaking in your boots? Or your outrage at President Bush's speech declaring support for freedom?
Maybe it's because conservatives have long been pragmatic realists who don't fall for utopian thinking. It used to be the Left who demanded we abandon or overthrow 'dictators' like Somoza and the Shah. We did. How'd that work out? Shall we try again with Musharraf of Pakistan? The Chinese oligarchs?
There were utopians in the 50s who insisted containment wasn't enough, that we should challenge the Soviets over Hungary. Eisenhower, who knew a good deal more about war than his utopian critics, ignored these fools. Hopefully this latest utopian excrescence is nothing more than rhetoric, and not a call for intervention on a global scale.
Apparently we are the minority. It's A brave new world. Global democratic revolution is the rough beast, its hour come round at last, slouching towards Bethlehem to be born.
Rush, telling it like it actually is.
Rush was on fire today. Especially in the first hour of his show. Thank you for posting this. I can now save it for posterity.
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