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Bumper crop for cops: Can secretly attach GPS - judge
New York Daily News ^ | January 20, 2005 | DEREK ROSE

Posted on 01/21/2005 11:01:49 AM PST by CrawDaddyCA

Cops without a warrant can secretly attach Global Positioning System devices to a suspect's vehicle, according to a federal judge - who said using the gadgets is virtually the same thing as following a car along a road.

The decision handed down by U.S. Judge David Hurd in upstate Utica last week could give law enforcement officials another high-tech weapon to catch criminals, but is troubling to privacy advocates.

Hurd ruled that Robert (Bugsy) Moran, a Hells Angel member and defense attorney accused of conspiring to distribute methamphetamine, had "no expectation of privacy in the whereabouts of his vehicle on a public roadway."

"Law enforcement personnel could have conducted a visual surveillance of the vehicle as it traveled on the public highways," Hurd wrote.

Assistant U.S. Attorney David Grable, who is prosecuting Moran, strongly backed the ruling.

"Your movements on a highway aren't private," he said. "You don't have a reasonable expectation of privacy, which is a Fourth Amendment test."

But civil liberties advocates said the decision opens the door to increased government surveillance.

Miniature GPS receivers are now available for about $1,000 and can be affixed to the undercarriage of vehicles in minutes.

Hurd's ruling is only binding in his upstate courtroom, said law Prof. Barry Kamins, but other judges will likely consult it.

"It's kinda scary," said Christopher Dunn, associate legal director of the New York City Liberties Union. "If this ruling applied to New York City, the NYPD would be free to go out and attach these devices to cars and track people without any showing of wrongdoing."

In the Laci Peterson murder case, California detectives got court permission to hide the devices on three of Scott Peterson's vehicles. They showed Peterson visited a marina they had searched several times.

Not all judges agree with the most recent federal ruling.

Last year, Nassau County Court Judge Joseph Calabrese said attaching a GPS device to a car amounted to a search and seizure. "At this time, more than ever, individuals must be given the constitutional protections necessary to their continued unfettered freedom from a 'big brother' society," he wrote.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; US: New York
KEYWORDS: 4thamendment; bigbrother; gps; leo; privacy
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To: af_vet_1981
Most people here are in to personal responsibility and smaller government, not Big Government Nanny Statism. Protecting freedom instead of stripping it from us bit by bit. Constitutional restrictions on Government power instead of your own cheerleading for more and more Jackbooted thuggery.

Libertine indeed. Shut the hell up you Socialist.

121 posted on 01/25/2005 11:42:48 AM PST by Dead Corpse (Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.)
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To: Dead Corpse
Hurd ruled that Robert (Bugsy) Moran, a Hells Angel member and defense attorney accused of conspiring to distribute methamphetamine, had "no expectation of privacy in the whereabouts of his vehicle on a public roadway."

This is great news.

122 posted on 01/25/2005 11:53:40 AM PST by af_vet_1981
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To: Dead Corpse

See post 116 and ask yourself; if someone in my family was kidnapped and there was a suspect, would I want to know where they have been in the last, say, 24 hours?


123 posted on 01/25/2005 11:57:33 AM PST by thefactor
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To: af_vet_1981

I hope you remember that as they are installing the "safety" camera in your living room. After all, if you have nothing to hide....


124 posted on 01/25/2005 11:58:06 AM PST by Dead Corpse (Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.)
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To: thefactor
Yes. And if I were wrongly charged with a crime, I would like to know that my Rights are being recognized. How ever did cops solve crimes in the past? Oh yeah... they did REAL work and were only expected to go after REAL criminals who committed real crimes.

That, and anyone trying to kidnap members of my family had better be much better armed. We take PERSONAL RESPONSIBILTY for our own safety.

Got any other straw men you wanna through my way? If so, don't. I've got some work I need to get done this afternoon and am disinclined to play along.

125 posted on 01/25/2005 12:03:37 PM PST by Dead Corpse (Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.)
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To: OldSgt.

At this point in my life, if I'm being followed, my pursuers might get bored to death, albeit after bits of terror following me on a mountain road.


126 posted on 01/25/2005 12:04:12 PM PST by sheik yerbouty
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To: Dead Corpse
cheerleading for more and more Jackbooted thuggery

It's a bit frightening to see the number of posters here who willfully have a tongue covered in boot polish.

I wonder if they're just simply misguided, or paid shills?

127 posted on 01/25/2005 12:55:47 PM PST by Freebird Forever
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To: af_vet_1981

Ya got me there, pal... I'd be a liar if I didn't donate to the RNC. But how and about what, those elude me. Please bring your superior intellect to bear and tell me. Also explain how suggesting you and your buddy get a clue relates to marching in lockstep with the RNC elitists and being just another Koolaid drinker. Then you could respond to my actual POST, perhaps... I'll be sure to hold my breath until you do.

(is this an example of your deep thinking???)


128 posted on 01/25/2005 12:57:59 PM PST by dcwusmc ("The most dangerous man, to any government, is the man who is able to think things out for himself.)
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To: dcwusmc
... so that some interested party can send you contributions so you can buy a clue... some interested party can send you contributions so you can buy a clue...

Do you recognize this comment ?

Put the alchohol down and honor your word.

129 posted on 01/25/2005 1:29:29 PM PST by af_vet_1981
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To: af_vet_1981

Since I wrote those words, I supposeI should recognize them... However, a suggestion that you beg money so you can buy a clue does NOT translate into either a desire to help you directly any further than the information I have provided OR a desire to become a Pubbie Koolaid drinker... so I guess that this would make me out to be a liar in your lexicon. Too bad, since I never offered to send ANYONE any money...


130 posted on 01/25/2005 3:04:29 PM PST by dcwusmc ("The most dangerous man, to any government, is the man who is able to think things out for himself.)
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To: Dead Corpse

I'm sorry, I didn't realize how busy you were. But just remember, cops are merely the vehicles in which the law travels. Last time I checked, police officers didn't get to sign off on legislation or case laws. Cops also have rights when it comes to enforcing the laws so don't blame the messengers for enforcing measures within their powers. Powers given to them by the courts.


131 posted on 01/25/2005 3:16:46 PM PST by thefactor
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To: justshutupandtakeit; gatex
Registration has the same problem most anti-gun laws have, they are obeyed by the lawabiding. Criminals ignore them.

However, I do not fear registration leads to confiscation.

Perhaps you should. Registration of firearms has led to confiscation in many instances, and not all of them abroad. In recent years registration lists have been used to confiscate guns in Cleveland and in California, that I am aware of. There are probably other cases as well.

And, of course, there are numerous foreign examples.

132 posted on 01/25/2005 3:49:28 PM PST by rmh47 (Go Kats! - Got Seven?)
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To: justshutupandtakeit; rmh47
"However, I do not fear registration leads to confiscation. "

Registration also led to confiscation of rifles brought back by WW II veterens to New York City.

In 1928, the Germans passed a law requiring registration and licensing. When Hitler got in power in 1933, the lists were available.

133 posted on 01/25/2005 4:28:09 PM PST by gatex
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To: dcwusmc

Both of the jokers you're arguing with have posted in support of gun control within the last few weeks. They're hopeless.


134 posted on 01/26/2005 11:03:53 AM PST by jmc813 (The Spreme Court is worthless)
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To: oldcomputerguy
Oh I guess we still have our houses, thats right.

Most people rent their houses from the government. (It's called "property taxes." As another sage has pointed out, these funds are primarily used for the indoctrination of children living in one's vicinity.)

135 posted on 02/15/2005 12:37:59 PM PST by coloradan (Hence, etc.)
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To: CrawDaddyCA
"troubling to privacy advocates"

These privacy advocates are always troubled. Who are they? Can we find out more about them? Need to track them and see if they are dangerous, you know they wouldn't be troubled if they had nothing to hide. What are they hiding?

136 posted on 02/15/2005 12:47:31 PM PST by CJ Wolf
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To: Tench_Coxe
"But, it is legal for us citizens to attach a GPS to the LEO cruiser and track his movements?" ACtually, it would be better to do it to politician's cars and post on a website, by district, where they are going and posit what they are doing. That would be a quick way to get this slapped down.

Excellent idea. Tracking the cops may illegal under some species of obstruction of justice, but tracking pols should be fine.

(As long as you do not threaten them...I think stalkers get busted for GPS tracking because they use it to stalk/harass their victims)

137 posted on 02/15/2005 12:52:13 PM PST by 13foxtrot
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