The Catholic Church and the Holocaust

The New American ^ | 06.19.2000 | Michael E. Telzrow

[DTA]

If this is your trump card, tough luck. Document I have posted can be easily tracked down and checked against the original.

If you feel up to it, this is a job for you, no security clearance needed. Only bring clean socks and clean underwear to avoid embarrasment when caught :-)

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Nice job producing those documents.

[DTA]

>>>>>If this is the best you can do, it's nowhere near good enough to support your claims that the Vatican was involved.<<<

Let's see. RC Priest uses the premisses of Catholic Institute of San Girolamo in Rome to hide Nazi war criminals before spiriting them out to South America. He keeps Ante Pavelic, fuehrer of Croatia hidden there for 2 years before spiriting him out for Argentina.

His superior, Monsignor Juraj Madjerec, the head of The Institute supports the clandestine operation without informing Vatican, although Institute is under Vatican iurisdiction. Father Draganovic, also uses National Cahtholic Charity (see scanned document) while spiriting hundreds of 'refugees" out of Italy to South America.

National Catholic Charity did not inform Vatican about what is going on, who are the refugees, where the money is going and so on.

Last but not least, no one in Vatican enquires why large amounts of money are flowing to San Girolamo institute from Swiss bank.

In other words, Vatican operates as a commune withot subordination.

Is this believable? Sure. Everything is posible with blind obedience. German Nazis believe there were no concentration camps.

Denial is not a river in Egypt. It is quicksand.

[conservonator]

Not a trump card just a simple reminder that documents are not always what they appear. Again, the simple fact that there are bad people in positions of power doesn't mean that the organization is corrupt and illegitimate to the core. And that is what you are attempting to portray.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Not a trump card just a simple reminder that documents are not always what they appear. Again, the simple fact that there are bad people in positions of power doesn't mean that the organization is corrupt and illegitimate to the core. And that is what you are attempting to portray

Don't think that's what he's trying to portray. But a little acceptance of culpability would be nice. The anti-semitism in NT writings have done much to foster attitudes over the years. It wasn't until Pope John XXIII that the word "perfidious" was taken out of the blessings regarding Jews. The same people always flock to the defense of Pius XII, the quiet one, on these threads.

[conservonator]

Has the Catholic Church ever done anything before 1950 that benefited mankind, in your opinion? And if so what? As far as your comment on recognizing culpability is concerned, I can't think of an organization that has dome more to make amends for the sins of some of it's members than the Catholic Church. The fact that no amount of Mea Culpas will satisfy some speaks volumes about them.

[malakhi]

Has the Catholic Church ever done anything before 1950 that benefited mankind, in your opinion?

I enjoy the Friday night fish frys. :o)

[conservonator]

Lets pretend that all that you believe is true, that the Vatican's totally complicit in the rape and pillaging of the Serbs (I'm assuming your a Serb) and that the pope had his hand on the tiller of the events you refer to. Lets pretend it's all true..

So what.

The Mass is still valid, the host once consecrated still becomes the Body Blood Soul and Divinity of Christ. And the Church, not the men who administer to it, will still be spotless, the pillar and foundation of truth.

What will change?

[conservonator]

I enjoy the Friday night fish frys. :o)

Nothing like a mess of deep fried great lakes walleye with mounds of coleslaw and fries accompanied by a golden, frosty mug of beer...OK, that's one;)

[Coleus]

St. Maximilian Kolbe, starved and killed in a Concentration Camp so a Jewish man could live.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

The Chuck-a-luck table the summertime bazaars was also a favorite of mine. :-)

[conservonator]

There is nothing more sinister than caged dice :)

[Invincibly Ignorant]

There is nothing more sinister than caged dice :)

Hey come on now. My father is an experienced Chuck-a-luck master of ceremonies. :-)

[Cronos]

I guess the lies about the church come from the same source who think that Abraham Lincoln was really a martian...

[Mark in the Old South]

I miss Church Chat. :-) Thanks for the smile

[Mark in the Old South]

Re: "I am talking about the official documents in U.S. possession describing how Vatican helped Nazis after WWII."

This is somewhat of a useless claim. I have little doubt there were some Nazis who received help from the Church. That is one of the things all Churches do. The job is to reconcile the sinner with God, sometimes that translates into help with authorities, necessities etc. The statement begs the question; What kind of help and why? Remember if the Nazis had won the very same statement that the Church helped their enemies could be made. This alone does not justify your commendation. And that doesn't even begin to consider rogue priests. We had them then we have them now. It takes monumental naivete to think any religion is going to operate in this world free of bad clergy.

[Mark in the Old South]

Re: "I am talking about the official documents in U.S. possession describing how Vatican helped Nazis after WWII."

This is somewhat of a useless claim. I have little doubt there were some Nazis who received help from the Church. That is one of the things all Churches do. The job is to reconcile the sinner with God, sometimes that translates into help with authorities, necessities etc. The statement begs the question; What kind of help and why? Remember if the Nazis had won the very same statement that the Church helped their enemies could be made. This alone does not justify your commendation. And that doesn't even begin to consider rogue priests. We had them then we have them now. It takes monumental naivete to think any religion is going to operate in this world free of bad clergy.

[Tailgunner Joe]

"The skull-cap is a danger to the State when things go badly. The clergy takes a sly pleasure in rallying the enemies of the established order, and thus shares the responsibility for the disorders that arise." - Adolf Hitler, 11th November, 1941

[It's me]

read later

[dcnd9]

People need to remember the Catholic church has human frailties and we are not perfect. It is a hospital for sinners as well as a haven for the saints.