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Doctors, Others Deride Chiropractic School
AP ^ | 1/16/05 | BRENT KALLESTAD

Posted on 01/17/2005 8:04:02 AM PST by anniegetyourgun

TALLAHASSEE, Florida (AP) -

Some Florida State University professors have been circulating a parody map showing the campus of the future, with a new Bigfoot Institute, a School of Astrology and a Crop Circle Simulation Laboratory.

It's a not-so-subtle jab in a growing debate over a proposal to build a chiropractic college on this campus - the first such school at a public university in the United States.

More than 500 professors, including the university's two Nobel laureates, have signed a petition opposing the school and a handful have even threatened to resign rather than teach alongside what they consider a "pseudoscience."

The dispute - the biggest academic furor in recent memory at Florida State - is heading to a showdown decision later this month, pitting FSU faculty and doctors against chiropractors and powerful lawmakers who pushed the $9 million (euro7 million) proposal through the Legislature.

T.K. Wetherell, the normally blunt president of Florida State, has been unusually reticent on the chiropractic flap, deferring to his provost.

"There's a small number of faculty who would like it to happen, there is another group of faculty who would like it to die as painful a death as possible, and then there's another group that has a lot of concerns that they would like answered before anything else happens," provost Larry Abele said.

Supporters of the school, which would add 100 faculty members, say the affiliation with a major university would quickly make it the nation's premier program and a magnet for federal grants in alternative medicine.

But the parody map sums up the views of many faculty - and physicians. They worry that chiropractic isn't based on real science and that such a program could hurt the university's academic reputation.

Last week, the faculty committee that oversees curriculum voted 22-0 to stop the proposed chiropractic program until it at least had a say-so in the decision.

"There's no demonstrated need. We have more chiropractors than any other state except California and New York," said Ray Bellamy, a local orthopedic surgeon and associate at the medical school.

For now, the 38,000 students at Florida State have largely stayed on the sidelines in the debate, although a few exercise physiology majors have spoken out in support of the school.

For chiropractors, the issue is bigger than just the fight at Florida State. It's part of an ongoing battle to win respect and credibility in the medical community for their profession. A chiropractic school at FSU would supply a long sought affiliation with an established university and a major boost.

Chiropractic, which focuses on manipulating the spine to lessen back pain and improve overall health, has won wider acceptance over the years; it's now covered by most health insurance plans.

But in the 110 years since the profession was created, the established medical community has largely boycotted it - challenging its scientific validity in courts and legislative bodies. In 1990, the U.S. 7th Circuit Court of Appeals found the American Medical Association guilty of conspiracy to destroy the profession.

"Chiropractic falls under the same umbrella as any number of therapies including homeopathy, naturopathy, meditation, prayer," said Dr. Bill Kinsinger, an Oklahoma anesthesiologist and longtime critic of chiropractors who is working with Florida doctors to block the new school. "There's no more evidence for chiropractic than there is for any of these other therapies."

The Florida Chiropractic Association says it's unfair for opponents to try to deny them the opportunity to create the school.

"On the one hand, they say there is no science behind what we do," said John Van Tassel, a Tallahassee chiropractor who tends to Florida State's football players. "At the same time, they're trying to prevent the very research (at a university) they say is needed."

The university system's Board of Governors, which faces a decision on the standoff Jan. 27. The fledgling board, which was created in 2002, has been accused of bowing to the wishes of the governor and the legislature on higher education issues.

While not an outspoken supporter, Gov. Jeb Bush signed off on the chiropractic school proposal in the last legislative session to appease the House speaker and Senate president.

_________________________

A CRACK AT RESPECT: Chiropractors helped push through the Florida Legislature a plan to build what would be the first chiropractic school at a public U.S. university.

GETTING THEIR BACKS UP: More than 500 Florida State University professors oppose bringing what they consider "pseudoscience" to their campus.

NERVOUS SYSTEM: The battle could determine who really controls the state's public university system: its Board of Governors, individual universities' trustees or the Legislature.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: chiropractic; docs; fl; health; quackery
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To: anniegetyourgun

61 posted on 01/17/2005 1:36:38 PM PST by Revolting cat! ("In the end, nothing explains anything!")
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To: anniegetyourgun

If Chiropractic "treatment" worked, why wouldn't physicians incorporate it into their practice?

The proponents of Chiropractic propose a conspiracy theory in which this "science" is suppressed for a variety of reasons, usually financial. However, physicians who treat back pain would welcome ANY new treatment to treat this frustrating disease. And since they would charge for it, the conspiracy theory that physicians suppress chiropractic for financial reasons doesn't hold water.


62 posted on 01/17/2005 1:37:15 PM PST by Bushforlife (I've noticed that everybody that is for abortion has already been born. ~Ronald Reagan)
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To: Old Professer

A tragedy indeed.


63 posted on 01/17/2005 1:38:47 PM PST by anniegetyourgun
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To: anniegetyourgun

64 posted on 01/17/2005 1:43:23 PM PST by Revolting cat! ("In the end, nothing explains anything!")
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To: Labyrinthos
Over the next few weeks the numbness progressed to the point where I fell up the stairs.

Not to be nitpicky, but how does a person fall "up" stairs?

65 posted on 01/17/2005 1:43:36 PM PST by wi jd
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To: anniegetyourgun

Many people in the chiropractic profession are involved in fraud. Many are associated with staged accident automobile fraud rings, many fraudulently bill insurance companies for services and treatments that were never given, the fraud is endless.

Nowadays there are computer databases that are keeping track of the names of people associated in these crimes and the doctors and chiropractors that routinely treat them. The databases are amazing, with many investigations on-going. Type in a suspects name, or a chiropractor or doctor, and it searches for matches, number of individuals that have had prior involvement or are suspect, it lists treatments, dates, times, and matches all that have had prior involvement and patterns with the people that are treating them and vise versa. Many are now being investigated very throughly and many are now facing criminal and civil charges or soon will be.


66 posted on 01/17/2005 1:53:10 PM PST by Joe Hadenuf (No more illegal alien sympathizers from Texas. America has one too many.)
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To: Michael.SF.
There i$ one primary rea$on Doctor$ are oppo$$ed to Chiropractor$.

What rea$on might that be? The $ame rea$on "doctor$" pu$h unnece$$ary drug$?

I am a firm believer in chiropractic. It has helped me personally with back pain, neck pain, knee pain & hip pain.

Unfortunately there are those in the Flat Earth Society who will hear of no such thing.

67 posted on 01/17/2005 1:57:12 PM PST by wi jd
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To: wi jd
Unfortunately there are those in the Flat Earth Society who will hear of no such thing.

Stephen's Guide to the Logical Fallacies

68 posted on 01/17/2005 2:05:43 PM PST by Revolting cat! ("In the end, nothing explains anything!")
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To: wi jd
Please see post #53.

You saw a chiropractor for a particular complaint. You wanted to be better. The chiropractor told you his "treatment" would make you better. You were "treated", and you got better.

That doesn't mean that the "treatment" made you better.

You have the right to believe in Chiropractors. You have a right, as well, to believe that ""doctor$" pu$h unnece$$ary drug$". But these ARE just that, beliefs. You have no evidence that the chiropractic "treatment" worked. In fact, such belief and trust are what con men all over the world rely on in order to fleece the unwary.

I guess my doctor should be arrested for "pushing" all those "unnecessary" antibiotics on his pneumonia patients...
69 posted on 01/17/2005 2:11:25 PM PST by Bushforlife (I've noticed that everybody that is for abortion has already been born. ~Ronald Reagan)
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To: wi jd
Not to be nitpicky, but how does a person fall "up" stairs?

You've obviously never been that drunk.

70 posted on 01/17/2005 2:13:47 PM PST by Graybeard58 (Remember and pray for Spec.4 Matt Maupin - MIA/POW- Iraq since 04/09/04)
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To: Revolting cat!

Interesting website with many links. It is obvious you think Doctors of Chiropractic are quacks based on a previous post of yours, so I am inferring that your posting of this website is a backhanded rhetort to my implication that you are a Flat Earther? Respond to that with a web link.


71 posted on 01/17/2005 2:21:32 PM PST by wi jd
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To: Graybeard58
You've obviously never been that drunk.

I've been drunk enough that I had to hold on to the floor to keep from standing.

72 posted on 01/17/2005 2:22:41 PM PST by wi jd
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To: Bushforlife
That doesn't mean that the "treatment" made you better.

I did not realize you had a copy of my medical records. Thank you for clearing up the fact that I am not actually better. I will never see a chiropractor again based on your wisdom.

73 posted on 01/17/2005 2:25:08 PM PST by wi jd
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To: wi jd
You are a victim of one of those "logical Fallacies" that Revolting Cat referred to. Yes, you became better. No one doubts that. The doubt is that the "treatment" MADE you better. You could have become better due to the placebo effect [you wanted to be better, you believed in the "treatment", and the BELIEF made you better]. You could have become better because the natural history of many musculoskeletal aches and pains is to spontaneously resolve without treatment. But there is NO EVIDENCE that the "treatment" caused you to be better; the only evidence is that one event followed the other, and that does NOT prove causation.

If I get a full tank of gas, then get into an auto accident, did getting the gas cause the accident? I think not; one event just followed the other.
74 posted on 01/17/2005 2:34:18 PM PST by Bushforlife (I've noticed that everybody that is for abortion has already been born. ~Ronald Reagan)
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To: wi jd

75 posted on 01/17/2005 2:34:28 PM PST by Revolting cat! ("In the end, nothing explains anything!")
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To: Revolting cat!

Is that an ad from a chiropractic journal?


76 posted on 01/17/2005 2:36:22 PM PST by Bushforlife (I've noticed that everybody that is for abortion has already been born. ~Ronald Reagan)
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To: Revolting cat!

Is that an ad from a chiropractic journal?


77 posted on 01/17/2005 2:37:08 PM PST by Bushforlife (I've noticed that everybody that is for abortion has already been born. ~Ronald Reagan)
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To: Bushforlife

You are uninformed and wrong.

Sorry to be so blunt, but I thought I should speak to you in a way you can relate.

Nothing personal.


78 posted on 01/17/2005 2:55:49 PM PST by rlmorel
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To: Revolting cat!

Well I cannot accuse you of being a Luddite.


79 posted on 01/17/2005 2:56:51 PM PST by wi jd
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To: rlmorel
Well, THERES'S an line of "reasoning" that we all can analyze in a logical way! Your post consists of an emotional response to an issue you must care a lot about. Of course, you don't seem to care enough about it to present a logical factual argument, choosing instead to resort to the "Nyah, Nyah, Nyah" school of debate.

I would never take such a post personal. That kind of "I'm right, you're wrong" argument doesn't merit being taken personal. It doesn't merit being noted at all.
80 posted on 01/17/2005 3:02:59 PM PST by Bushforlife (I've noticed that everybody that is for abortion has already been born. ~Ronald Reagan)
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