[Osage Orange]

Giving up our UN veto would cost us one of our weapons against the rise and spread of global fascism. Nothing good would or could come from surrendering that veto power.

I happen to think that.....If the U.S.A. pulled out of the U.N. the U.N. would cease to exist. Thus making your argument moot.

I could be wrong....But I would sure like to be proven wrong. : )

FWIW-

[Southack]

"I happen to think that.....If the U.S.A. pulled out of the U.N. the U.N. would cease to exist. Thus making your argument moot. I could be wrong....But I would sure like to be proven wrong. : )"

Walking around unarmed (i.e. without a UN veto) in the world doesn't make crime (i.e. the UN) go away.

You want the UN gone. I want the UN gone.

The difference between us is that you are willing to *gamble* that giving up our UN veto (all that really changes if we leave the UN) will make the UN go away, whereas I want the UN dead and gone BEFORE I let go of that UN veto.

Better to veto everything at the UN to grind that place to a halt, than to gamble that leaving the UN will end the nonsense there.

Keep in mind that the U.S. once signed the Kyoto Treaty and the treaty for the International Criminal Court before President Bush wisely pulled us out of both monsters, yet even so, those coalitions of nations haven't collapsed without the U.S.

Gambling that the withdrawal of the U.S. from the UN would have a *different* result than what happened to the ICC and Kyoto goes beyond risky...it's a clear loser of a policy idea.