Posted on 01/16/2005 5:22:26 AM PST by dead
Islamic extremists may have murdered four members of a Coptic Orthodox family found bound, gagged and with their throats slit on Friday in their Jersey City home, a law-enforcement official familiar with the case said.
The official confirmed that Hudson County investigators, as well the FBI, were "knee-deep" in pulling computer records and were coming to terms with the possibility that the family may have been targeted for death because of exchanges about religion in an Internet chat room.
The official cautioned, though, that investigators have not ruled out other possibilities, such as a robbery gone awry.
Hossam Armanious, 47, Amal Garas, 37, and their daughters Sylvia, 15, and Monica, 8, were found dead in their Oakland Avenue home early Friday after family members alerted police that nobody had heard from them in days.
First Assistant Hudson County Prosecutor Guy Gregory declined to discuss any details of the case, other than to confirm that police have ruled out a dispute the family had with a former tenant as a possible motive. He cautioned against speculating about the motive behind the murders.
"This is a very delicate investigation and one where we have spent hours at the scene collecting evidence and with the evidence collection complete, we're moving to bring in people that we feel need to be interviewed," Gregory said. "It's unfortunate that people are speculating."
But as the theory spread that revenge and religion were the driving forces behind one of the most heinous murders in the county's long history, fear enveloped the city's Coptic community.
Friends, relatives and co-worshippers of the devout family spent much of Saturday wondering how the seemingly upstanding Armanious family could fall victim to such a shockingly brutal crime. Several spoke of Hossam Armanious' participation in heated discussions about the Islamic faith on the Paltalk.com messenger service and threats he received for expressing his views about the religion.
Milad Garas, an uncle of Amal Garas, said Saturday that he was told investigators are probing whether the killings could have been prompted in part by the chat sessions. He also pointed to a passage in the Muslim holy book, the Quran, that details how enemies should be killed - bound and their throats slit, an assertion that drew a rebuttal from some Islamic scholars, but was supported by others.
A translation of passage 47:4 of the Quran reads in part: "Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers [in fight], smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly [on them]."
"There is a very wide range of interpretation of that, and it depends on where people are in the spectrum," said Frederick M. Denny, a professor of religious studies at the University of Colorado and author of more than a dozen books on Islam. "If they were going toward the extremist side, it could lead someone to believe it is justified. ... There are those that take that [passage] quite literally."
The close-knit Coptic community promised protests if the religious revenge theory proves accurate.
"If it turns out they were killed for religion, then we will [protest]," said Ayman Garas, Amal's younger brother. "We have to be patient, we can't do anything stupid. ... But it looks like it is religion, maybe."
The Armanious family moved to the United States from Egypt in part to escape religious persecution. Hossam Armanious had sensed a rise in anti-Christian extremism and wanted to make a better life for his family in America, Ayman Garas said.
"What I really want to know is: How?'' he said. "We just can't believe it at this point. Everything has passed like a dream."
The details of what may have been said in the chat sessions were not known Saturday night.
Fred Ayad, deacon of the couple's St. George Coptic Orthodox Church, said that the entire community was in a "panic" over the apparent targeting of the family, as well as the murders of a Coptic deacon in December and a Coptic cabdriver in late 2003.
Prosecutor Gregory said the conjecture about the murders is hampering his office's investigation, which he said has been exhaustive.
Copts are Egyptian Christians, a minority group of about 6 million in a nation of 60 million, and have been killed in religious rioting and during attacks on Christian churches by Islamic militants. Coptic leaders also say they lack representation in the Egyptian government and are treated like second-class citizens.
Over the past decade, Copts have increasingly immigrated to the United States. Currently, they number about 1 million in this country. Coptic Orthodox churches are scattered throughout the nation and, while there is no official count, Coptic Web sites list about 10 large congregations in New Jersey and about 20 in the tri-state area.
Islamic leaders said Saturday that the murders could not have been the work of someone inspired by the Quran.
"We are not a bloody people," said Ahmed Shedeed, director of the Islamic Center of Jersey City. "This is not from the Quran. This is not from Islam at all."
Shedeed, who is Egyptian, said his group recently co-founded a social service organization with local Coptic churches, called Egyptian Family.
"We are trying to get religious leaders from both communities to meet on a monthly basis to break the ice between the people," he said. "We meet as individuals, but as organizations we never have done such a thing. We are trying to show that Egyptians together can benefit."
Shedeed said that as part of that effort, he attended Christmas Eve services at St. George's this year.
Asked about passages in the Quran that may suggest murdering non-believers in a manner that resembles the family's deaths, he replied, "The Quran talks about people fighting in the battle of war. It's not talking about people who live next to you. ... This has nothing to do with our community at all."
"The Quran stands very firmly against taking human life," said noted Islamic author Zayn Kassam, chairwoman of the religious studies department of Pomona College in California. "If someone read a verse and used it to justify the killing of four people, I believe that person is unbalanced. ... There are very few Muslims who would support this sort of thing."
On Saturday, the family received mourners at the church, as friends left lighted candles and flowers in front of the home. Neighbors talked of an exhaustive police investigation, with a former Armanious tenant, Nelly Ramirez, saying police had questioned her, her son and her son's girlfriend.
Meanwhile, friends of Sylvia, a high school sophomore who would have turned 16 on Saturday, lingered in front of the house, alternately crying and laughing. They talked of an extremely gifted teen who recently won a trip to Italy from the National Honor Society for a series of essays she wrote on topics such as Shakespeare and Charles Dickens.
"She used to write all the time," said her friend Jankil Patel, 15. "She used to go to church all the time. ... She'd debate people in class and even had a religious tattoo on her [right wrist]."
"She had a lot of friends; she was very popular," said Jessica Cimino, 15, another friend. Cimino and the other girls said they plan to attend the family funeral on Monday and wear T-shirts bearing Sylvia's image to school on Tuesday.
Ayman and Milad Garad and other family members were allowed into the crime scene for the first time on Saturday morning to gather the needed paperwork for the cemetery. They left the home with a briefcase and several other items, including a tank with several small turtles inside.
Staff Writer Kathleen Carroll contributed to this story. E-mail: troncone@northjersey.com
S/B CAPE CORAL
Hossam Armanious had sensed a rise in anti-Christian extremism
Thats a major understatement considering the outright persecution of the Egyptian Copts:
Earlier this month, an outrage in Egypt gripped its Coptic Christian community in fear and anger, but it barely got reported in the mainstream North American media. The story of Wafaa Constantine Messiha, wife of a Coptic priest, abducted by Muslim fanatics and forcibly converted to Islam, is emblematic of the perils surrounding Egypt's Copts.
Parliamentary Press Conference Highlights Persecution and Killing of Copts in Egypt
A press conference chaired by David Alton MP and organised by the London based human rights group, Jubilee Campaign, was held in the House of Commons to highlight the killings and discrimination against the Christian community in Egypt. It launched a report on these issues based on a visit to Egypt by David Alton MP and Wilfred Wong from Jubilee Campaign which organised and sponsored the trip. This arose out of approaches made to Jubilee by Egyptian Christians who were very concerned about their deteriorating situation in that country.
David Alton said, "The carnage against the ancient Coptic community is one of the least reported assaults on a minority anywhere in the world. Violated, molested, discriminated against, abused and even murdered, these gentle people deserve better protection. The world will be guilty of quiet collaboration in the persecution and destruction of the Copts and their culture- which goes back to Pharoanic times-if it turns a blind eye."
The report was based on extensive meetings with a cross-section of Egyptian society, ranging from the Minister of the Interior and Minister of Justice to Muslim and Coptic academics and intellectuals and the Grand Imam of Al Azhar.
Issues raised at the press conference included the following.
* The lack of protection for Egypt's Coptic community in the face of increasing attacks by Islamic extremists such as the Al-Gamma AI-lslamyia and Jihad. Numerous incidents have been reported of forewarning being given before such attacks only to be ignored by the police. One example was the report that the chief of AI-Moharraq Monastery in Upper Egypt had been warned of an impending attack by extremists, which he relayed to the local police station, but no action was taken and on 11th March this year, Islamic extremists attacked the monastery, killing 5 Copts.
* Disturbing allegations of the rape of Christian women in Egypt by extremists in order to coerce them into converting to Islam. It was alleged to the Jubilee delegation when they were in Egypt that a Christian girl would be raped by Muslim extremists, then informed that if she goes back to her parents they would reject her or kill her because she had been "dishonoured" . The extremists then promise to arrange a marriage between the girl and a Muslim if she converts to Islam, so she would be provided for by her husband. It was stated that the police were reluctant to get involved and sources claimed this practice is widespread in Upper Egypt. Jubilee Campaign is continuing its investigations and has called upon the government of Egypt to conduct an official enquiry into the issue.
* Incitement of hatred against Christians in Egypt. Some Muslim clerics such as Sheikh Muhammad Mitwalli AI-Sharawi were inciting hatred by making very derogatory comparisons between Islam and Christianity in public and what made the problem worse was the fact that often such clerics have ready access to the Egyptian media whilst the Christians had little chance to refute their allegations because they only have access to television twice a year.
* The problem of conversion and state persecution. Converts from Islam to Christianity are in the most difficult position of all. Under Sharia Law, conversion from Islam to any other faith is punishable by death. One example is the case of Hanaan Assofti, a twenty-six year old convert from Islam to Christianity, she was arrested by Egyptian State Security Officers on lath October 1992 at Cairo International Airport. She was attempting to leave the country to seek asylum and to join her fiancee in Europe. Police told her father that she had intended to leave for Europe, where Christians would employ her as a prostitute. She has been regularly beaten by family members who are trying to force her to convert back to Islam and she has been forced to attend the Islamic Institute where a Sheik has told her she would die for her refusal to recant her faith.
* Restrictive and discriminatory laws regarding the building and maintenance of churches which have resulted in the continued deterioration of existing churches and a totally inadequate programme of construction of new churches.
* The infiltration of the education system by Islamic extremists and compulsory use of the Koran in Arabic language teaching in schools even where the students are non-Muslims.
Jubilee acknowledged that Muslims were also victims of sectarian violence and that Muslim writers such as the late Farag Fodha had stood up for Egyptian Christians in the past. It however stressed the vulnerability of the Coptic minority and the fact they were such an easy target for the extremists.
Action that Jubilee Campaign called for included more protection for Egypt's Coptic minority especially in the face of increasing extremist violence, strict punishment for those who incite religious hatred, more access to the media for the Copts, more protection for converts from Islam to non-Muslim religions including the changing of one's religion on one's personal documents, which is at present forbidden and equal planning laws for both churches and mosques.
http://www.jubileecampaign.co.uk/world/egy10.htm
Coptic leaders also say they lack representation in the Egyptian government and are treated like second-class citizens.
Its called Dhimmi status.
"We are not a bloody people," said Ahmed Shedeed, director of the Islamic Center of Jersey City. "This is not from the Quran. This is not from Islam at all."
Jersey City was the home of the Islamists who bombed the WTC in 1993.
I believe America is about to reach a boiling point. They, the politicans, better sit up and take notice of the friction here in America between Christians and Muzzies.
Our leaders Constantly telling us that islam is the religion of peace, is insulting to any thinking American. And we are getting tired of hearing that bullshi* lie.
Uh-oh. FReepers may be next. :-O
A mosque has been built in my hometown, it used to be a small community surrounded by farm land in the South suburbs of Chicago. It's built up with McMansions and now a mosque.
Just another bit of ammo for me to use to convince them to move. :-)
What the hell do they mean by "seemingly upstanding"? Sheesh, talk about blaming the victims.
Transaltion: "We're freaking wimps in heavily muslim Jersey and scared to death of CAIR."
Ain't that the truth.
It's frustration I'm feeling, you're exactly right. I see things changing here for the worse and all people do is talk about being sensitive and understanding. Well, I can tell them where to put their sensitivity and understanding.
I heard on FOX that the TV series "24" will be airing some sort of CAIR disclaimer because CAIR has protested the series portrayal of Muslims.
Boycott "24." Write FOX.
Kowtowing to CAIR is apologizing to terror. Hollywood strikes again.
Maybe that is how the muslims get the names and address' and so forth for the Coptics in the area?
D'OH! Them = My parents!
Great example of taqiyyah -- [aka lying to the infidels]
The government is in a precarious position now.
Vast numbers of National Guard troops are overseas.
Manpower is so low nearby military facilities are guarded by civilian contractors. "Quelling disturbances" would be problematic.
However when the troops start to return, there will thousands of young men freshly experienced in urban combat - a different dynamic.
This was deliberate and intentional murder of a family because of their christian faith ... and no MSM spin will convince me otherwise. Burglars don't slit throats. Not even the most deranged intruder would slit the throats of children. I am outraged.
I haven't checked all the posts to this thread yet. Was anything stolen from the home?
Bump to 'SheLion's map, which now needs to be updated to include this terrorist cell in NJ.
Any half way good computer hacker can do it, according to my son-in-law who has been a computer programer and trouble shooter for two national business for 20 years.
FOX has a long history of running advertisements for muslim terror groups.
Does everyone forget already the months of pro-islam, pro-arab, pro-saudi spots they ran after 9-11?????
The ones sponsored by the master funders of arab muslim terror, the saudis????
www.saudiembassy.net
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.