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Teachers who fail: A survey of certification-test scores yields alarming results
Herald Tribune ^ | 12.12.04

Posted on 01/15/2005 7:15:35 PM PST by Coleus

Teachers who fail

A survey of certification-test scores yields alarming results More than half a million Florida students sat in classrooms last year in front of teachers who failed the state's basic skills tests for teachers.

Many of those students got teachers who struggled to solve high school math problems or whose English skills were so poor, they flunked reading tests designed to measure the very same skills students must master before they can graduate.

These aren't isolated instances of a few teachers whose test-taking skills don't match their expertise and training. A Herald-Tribune investigation has found that fully a third of teachers, teachers' aides and substitutes failed their certification tests at least once.

The Herald-Tribune found teachers who had failed in nearly every school in each of the state's 67 counties.

But it is the neediest of children who most often get the least-prepared teachers.

Students in Florida's rural outposts and inner cities, those from housing projects and migrant camps, and those from black and Latino families were far more likely to have a teacher who struggled.

An analysis of the test scores of nearly 100,000 teachers found that children from Florida's poor neighborhoods were 44 percent more likely than their wealthier peers to have a teacher who failed the certification tests.

The findings raise questions about Florida's education reforms, which require students to pass standardized tests to advance, yet allow teachers to fail exams dozens of times and still stand at the front of a classroom.

And they highlight challenges that have dogged public schools across the country for years: How to attract more of the nation's top minds into a profession where salaries are low, and how to steer those teachers into inner-city and rural neighborhoods where children need the most help.

A state education official said Friday a recent study confirms that student learning suffers under teachers who repeatedly fail the tests.

The Department of Education study, the first of its kind, found that students learn less under teachers who had failed more than three times, said DOE spokesman MacKay Jimeson.

Nine percent of teachers failed portions of the tests at least four times, according to the Herald-Tribune study.

The state report, which wasn't released Friday, led DOE officials to reverse statements they had made last spring. The officials said then that they hadn't reviewed teacher scores because the tests have no bearing

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TOPICS: Government; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: education; fasttrack; fl; florida; nclb; nte; praxis; pspl; students; teachers; testing; testingteachers
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To: Texasforever
That student teachers are not required to be proficient in the subjects they teach only in the mechanics of the act of teaching? >>

that's generally the case with teachers in elementary schools not in the high schools where you need a degree in the discipline you teach. Just go to any local college and check the curriculum for the BA degree in Education. It's a lot of theory and methods, (although they do concentrate on teaching reading) not content in regular subject material.
21 posted on 01/15/2005 7:40:26 PM PST by Coleus (Roe v. Wade and Endangered Species Act both passed in 1973, Murder Babies/save trees, birds, algae)
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To: Coleus
I have a Masters degree and years of experience in college teaching yet I could not be hired to teach in any high school because I lack a "teacher's certificate". It would take me nearly two years of "education" courses to get this certificate none of which would add to my knowledge of any subject I might teach.

I see many preparing teachers in the college where I work spending most of their time taking learning how to teach classes and struggling to get through even the most rudimentary science classes. These graduates will in all likelihood be teaching our kids science.

No wonder our nation lags behind in education.

22 posted on 01/15/2005 7:41:21 PM PST by The Great RJ
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To: Happygal

But at least when the nuns were teaching us Latin, Science, Maths, English, French etc. you were SURE that they (tough taskmasters that they were) were teaching you. >>

They drilled it into you using the rote method. It's too bad many American Teachers don't use that teaching arithmetic any more.


23 posted on 01/15/2005 7:42:04 PM PST by Coleus (Abortion and Euthanasia, Don't Democrats just kill ya! Kill Humans, Save the Bears!!)
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To: proxy_user

I see. Yes, of course, a typo.


24 posted on 01/15/2005 7:44:47 PM PST by patton (Genisis 3:16)
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To: SunnySide

Oddly enough, I'll take my chances with the imported brainiac teachers over the homegrown variety. It's a fact that they value education, and I mean subject matter (math & science especially).


25 posted on 01/15/2005 7:45:29 PM PST by demkicker (I'm Ra th er sick of Dan)
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To: The Great RJ; Clemenza

I know a brother of the Christian Brothers catholic religious order with 3 Ph.D's from Fordham U. who can not teach in a public school.


26 posted on 01/15/2005 7:46:47 PM PST by Coleus (God gave us the right to life and self preservation and a right to defend ourselves and families)
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To: The Great RJ
My experience parallels yours almost exactly. After I retired, I taught at a Southern University for a couple of years.

I thought about teaching high school but discovered it would take two years to get certified. Just not worth the trouble.

27 posted on 01/15/2005 7:47:01 PM PST by yarddog
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To: yarddog
Also at least a couple depended on one's opinion.

You miss the point of teacher certification. By the time you are certified, your opinion has been fixed by the instructors in your "educational" courses.

28 posted on 01/15/2005 7:47:30 PM PST by WildTurkey (When will CBS Retract and Apologize?)
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To: WildTurkey

You are correct. I suspect some of the questions are there to make sure your opinion is the same as the education establishment.


29 posted on 01/15/2005 7:49:11 PM PST by yarddog
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To: Coleus
Would love to know the test - articles says nothing about -yet more dumb modern journalism.

What is PI? Name 5 influential Presidents and their general contributions. Write an essay with a Theme, opening sentence, descriptive language and close with an argument for a next paragraph. What are three Amendments to the Constitution?

My knowledge is that more than 50% of the teachers I have met in Texas would fail.
30 posted on 01/15/2005 7:49:49 PM PST by txzman (Jer 23:29)
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To: yarddog

Right. Anytime you have to deal with the education system (from the inside) you have to put on your "PC" hat or they will think you are not "one of them".


31 posted on 01/15/2005 7:54:11 PM PST by WildTurkey (When will CBS Retract and Apologize?)
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To: Coleus

Students in Florida's rural outposts and inner cities, those from housing projects and migrant camps, and those from black and Latino families were far more likely to have a teacher who struggled.



That is a true statement. But they don't tell you why. These schools are so bad that they can't get good teachers. The teachers leave just as soon as they can. Clean up the schools and put discipline back in and then the teachers that know what they are doing will come back.


32 posted on 01/15/2005 8:03:35 PM PST by georgiabelle
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To: Coleus
Does certification guarantee anything?

If a major is listed with the certificate it means a certain number of courses were taken in that major. 12 units of college math for a math minor, and 16 units for a science major. (In my case -- CA school certificate)

As far as basic skills tests, they are being implemented to weed out teachers who got in when the district needed warm bodies. Frequently a foreign born teacher has weak language skills and fails the test. Many teachers got through math by guess and by gosh, and really need more math before they be allowed to teach it.

Without good skills, a teacher had a big chance of creating a "turn off experience" for a student. The kid thinks "Gee, I have to teach myself this stuff, the teacher does not know it, or is unable to address my questions, this stuff can't be very important or I would not be led by someone who does not know what they are doing."

There are plenty of great teachers who don't pass the test for one reason or another, but these basic tests are not that hard, and most districts allow unlimited retakes. So the teacher who wants to keep the job will find a way to learn the material necessary to pass.

As for the psyc stuff in the teacher credential, most of it is a waste. Teacher certification also covers things like legal liability and how to avoid being sued. Good things IMO for a teacher to know these days.

33 posted on 01/15/2005 8:06:50 PM PST by KC_for_Freedom (Sailing the highways of America, and loving it.)
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Comment #34 Removed by Moderator

To: patton

Tja. Classic Patton mistake.


35 posted on 01/15/2005 8:26:07 PM PST by patton (Genesis 3:16)
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To: All

Gonna love this one. First too much money is spent bussing students all over the countryside not on teachers and facilities. Students spend literally hours each day riding and at times making a 12 hour school day down to and including first grade resulting in exhausted students with little quality time for homework.
Teachers with special considerations were pushed thru collage to meet quotas and turned loose on an educational system so desperate it fill positions that they didn't care who they got or how good they were as long as the paperwork was acceptable.
It inconceivable to me that persons who can't pass a simple test in their teaching subject are allowed to continue teaching, worse even after repeated failures they're still there.
You wouldn't hire a limo driver that can't pass a driving test, a carpenter that can't hit a nail, a deep sea diver that can't swim. they can't teach either but hire them anyway.


36 posted on 01/15/2005 8:27:41 PM PST by sandviper
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To: Coleus

We have been discussing inexpensive ways to fast track kids through high school to avoid the liberal agenda:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1315730/posts?page=84#84

Unfortunately my thread title was not well thought out, because some parents might instinctively skip over it due to attached stigma, whether real or imagined.


37 posted on 01/15/2005 8:29:27 PM PST by Kevin OMalley (No, not Freeper#95235, Freeper #1165: Charter member, What Was My Login Club.)
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To: Chummy
In other words, why are teachers employees of the individual, wide-ranging school districts, rather than say, of a state government?

The short answer is "Local Control". It is assumed that those who live in a community will actually care more about the kids in their community than some bureaucrat in an office far, far away.

I have lived in communities in both extremes. There are some communities who demand the schools be given the best of everything, then there are some communities that see schools as a necessary evil.

However, in my very limited teaching experience (several years as a substitute teacher and one year of teaching full-time K-12), I've rarely seen a student fail who had parents that were interested in his education. In almost every case, when I had a student who was uninterested in getting an education (and who was unwilling to put in the effort to get an education), I found a parent who wasn't interested in their child getting an education.

I was raised in a farming community in West Texas. The schools were horrendous! As mentioned by a previous poster, we had several teachers who did not know the subject matter and we (the students) had to teach ourselves. The only reason I got a decent education is because of my mother.

Now, take a look at the statistics. The worst schools are frequently the best funded schools. DC pays over $11,000 per student per year. Yet, they are consistently ranked as the worst schools in the nation.

While looking for that statistic, I came across this article in which Kentucky's 20% increase in per-pupil spending is analyzed. The net result was that more money did not result in better schools. "In fact, for students evaluated using the federal National Assessment of Education Progress reading test, scores for Kentucky students declined."

My Mom and I were discussing this tonight. If we want our schools to improve, we need to get good teachers into the schools and, IMNSHO most importantly, give the parents an incentive to be certain their student behaves and works towards getting the best education he is capable of obtaining.

Again, IMNSHO, the first step is to eliminate compulsory education. If a parent wants his kid to go through life ignorant, then they should have that right. It's not "fair" to the kid, but neither is it fair for a bored kid to ruin the education of those who want to learn.

Second, expel the little brats who will not obey their instructor. If the parents want someone to look after their kids for eight or ten hours per day, put the onus on the parents to make their child behave. If the parent won't motivate their spawn, then dump the kid back on the parent.

Third, vouchers, and vouchers. That's two types of vouchers. A) Vouchers for parents to help send their child to whatever school they choose and B) vouchers for the taxpayer to send the tax money the state mandates they spend on education to any educational institution (public, private, primary, secondary, whatever). Do not lock any person (user or payer) into one school district just because of geography.

That's my 2¢.

38 posted on 01/15/2005 8:50:48 PM PST by SWake ("Estrada was savaged by liars and abandoned by cowards." Mark Davis, WBAP, 09/09/2003)
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To: Coleus
Several years ago I read a report on NC teachers that stated 60% of our state's teachers scored less than 900 on the SAT after receiving their degree and teaching certificate. After a near teachers revolt it was determined that the SAT was not a good measurement of their skills and was biased. In my opinion a good model for public education would be The Kincaid School in Houston Texas. 1250 is the average SAT score.
39 posted on 01/15/2005 8:54:00 PM PST by jec41 (Screaming Eagle)
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To: Lizavetta
Yo, dude, my pencil is measured in meters- yu no ah mean.
40 posted on 01/15/2005 9:34:13 PM PST by Malesherbes
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