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To: DocRock
I have seen nothing recorded about the situation that necessitated the first sentence of Article eleven, of the twelve article treaty. If you have, please state what it was and explain.

Presenting the legal document establishing a subordinate colony by a bunch of self proclaimed loyal subjects of a European King does not qualify as a founding document of a sovereign nation. You need to come forward 156 years for that.

What's interesting here, is that when it was finally done, it was done mostly by good honest Christian men who were not about to dirty their God with the politics of a nation. Shame that this is not the case today.

175 posted on 01/15/2005 4:38:00 PM PST by jackbob
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To: jackbob
"I have seen nothing recorded about the situation that necessitated the first sentence of Article eleven, of the twelve article treaty. If you have, please state what it was and explain."

The treaty with the Barbary pirates was to secure the release of hostages from their raiding trade ships. This was a failed attempt at appeasement with Muslims, (Musselmen), but it did secure the release of the prisoners. (I'm working from memory, and I do not have the time to pursue the documentation to back up my memory at this time.)

"Presenting the legal document establishing a subordinate colony by a bunch of self proclaimed loyal subjects of a European King does not qualify as a founding document of a sovereign nation. You need to come forward 156 years for that."

I respectfully disagree when my Christian heritage and history is under attack. Reread my post 166 again and note that I never implied this was "a founding document of a sovereign nation". It is part of the Christian heritage and history of this nation and is the first governing document.

If you are referring to the Constitution, then I would like to bring to your attention the Declaration of Independence. The Declaration of Independence is our Charter, a legal document that made us a nation. It doesn't tell us how we are going to run our country, that is what the Constitution does. In a corporation, the Charter is higher than the By-laws and the By-laws must be interpreted to be in agreement with the Charter. Therefore, the Constitution of the Untied States must be in agreement with the Declaration of Independence. The most important statement in our Declaration is that we want to operate under the laws of God.

So, even though the Constitution doesn't mention God, it doesn't have to, because the Declaration of Independence does, and it is a higher document.

All 50 state Constitutions appeal to the Almighty God.

Our National Anthem says:
Praise the Pow'r that hath made and preserved us a nation!
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just;
And this be our motto, "In God is our Trust!"

Our Supreme Courts: As late as 1952, in Zorach v. Clausen (343 U.S.306), Justice William O. Douglas wrote:

"The First Amendment... does not say that in every and all respects there shall be a separation of Church and State. Rather, it studiously defines the manner, the specific ways, in which there shall be no concert or union of dependency one on the other. that is the common sense of the matter. Otherwise the state and religion would be aliens to each other-hostile, suspicious, and even unfriendly... Municipalities would not be permitted to render police or fire protection to religious groups. Policemen who helped parishioners into their places of worship would violate the Constitution. Prayers in our legislative halls; the appeals to the Almighty in the messages of the Chief Executive; the proclamation making Thanksgiving Day a holiday; "so help me God" in our courtroom oaths - these and all other references to the Almighty that run through our laws, our public rituals, our ceremonies, would be flouting the First Amendment. A fastidious atheist or agnostic could even object to the supplication with which the Court opens each session: "God save the United States and this Honorable Court."

"What's interesting here, is that when it was finally done, it was done mostly by good honest Christian men who were not about to dirty their God with the politics of a nation. Shame that this is not the case today."

History also shows that most of the Convention's delegates came from states having established churches. Some even required voting tests that eliminated citizens who did not believe in Jesus Christ or the Holy Scriptures from being considered for election to public office. If these founders had been atheists and unbelievers, they would never have been elected to represent those states.
180 posted on 01/15/2005 6:19:06 PM PST by DocRock
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