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Lutheran decision splits on gay clergy
Washington Times ^ | 1/14/05 | Julia Duin

Posted on 01/13/2005 10:01:46 PM PST by kattracks

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To: taxesareforever; SoDak
I can vouch for that. I also will vouch for the WELS (Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod) Both consider the Bible the inerrant inspired Word of God.

I agree - the WELS is about as hard-nosed as it gets. They still use the communion rail, and have altar boys that must bow to the altar after each action or turn that they make. You get a real sense of what Catholic churches used to be like.
81 posted on 01/14/2005 9:02:54 AM PST by July 4th (A vacant lot cancelled out my vote for Bush.)
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To: July 4th

I should say that's what it's like in the churches I've been in. I don't know if that's the case across all churches in the synod.


82 posted on 01/14/2005 9:04:27 AM PST by July 4th (A vacant lot cancelled out my vote for Bush.)
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To: Die Zaubertuba; kittymyrib; Cletus.D.Yokel; Conservativegreatgrandma
We (those of us trying to save the ELCA) need your prayers, not your scorn.

Believe me, I sympathize. For the faithful remnant still in the ELCA, who have protested Official ELCA's many departures from God's Word all across the board for many years--for you, I have great sympathy. My "scorn"/satire is directed at the "stiff necked proponents" of false doctrine and aberrant practice within the ELCA.

What's more, I am equally as critical--no, more so--of the errors in doctrine and practice condoned, approved, and defended by the current administration of my own LCMS!

83 posted on 01/14/2005 9:26:04 AM PST by Charles Henrickson (Confessional Lutheran pastor)
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To: ScottM1968

Hold on there, pardner!

The ELCA ain't the Lutheran church...the ELCA ain't Lutheran.


84 posted on 01/14/2005 9:29:22 AM PST by Cletus.D.Yokel (lex orandi, lex credendi)
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To: Nowhere Man

You describe the tenure of CFW Walther, 1st President of the LCMS


85 posted on 01/14/2005 9:31:15 AM PST by Cletus.D.Yokel (lex orandi, lex credendi)
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To: MississippiMan
"they have to openly share their testimony on how and when they came to Christ"

Being Lutheran means you never have to say "I decided".

86 posted on 01/14/2005 9:38:46 AM PST by Cletus.D.Yokel (lex orandi, lex credendi)
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To: hocndoc

Well, a strong Biblical argument can be made against that - starting with the Samaritan woman at the well.


87 posted on 01/14/2005 9:48:11 AM PST by Cletus.D.Yokel (lex orandi, lex credendi)
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To: adamj
"orangization that condems a rather significant part of society? You folks sound like racists..."

It is the Bible that condemns such as these (Romans 1) not the organization.

And really, "rather significant part" is just so much hyperbole.

88 posted on 01/14/2005 9:50:19 AM PST by Cletus.D.Yokel (lex orandi, lex credendi)
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To: The Red Zone
"Do they believe that, say, Baptists (with their symbolic communion) can't be Christians?"

No. XPians live by Grace through Faith in Christ. Lutherans do not deny the existence of XPians in any other Trinitarian denomination.

We teach that those who hold to a "symbolic communion" are not properly conforming to the Church (Body of XP) as established by Him.

Ephesians 2:8-9

89 posted on 01/14/2005 9:55:06 AM PST by Cletus.D.Yokel (lex orandi, lex credendi)
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To: adamj
Do you really want to belong to an orangization that condems a rather significant part of society? You folks sound like racists... What happened to throwing the first stone?

It is not condemning...is is not condoning. No one is being judgemental except those who would condone. To condone by acceptance is judgemental of that which is unnatural, perverse and an abomination. If someone or a church accepts non-repentant, practicing homosexuals, then they have cast the first stone of judgement.

Additionally, they have given homosexuals a false hope that because churches who call themselves Brides of Christ accept them and their perversion that God will also accept them in heaven. They are guilty of the same abomination and an even worse one as setting themselves up as God and making judgements.

90 posted on 01/14/2005 10:02:46 AM PST by N. Theknow (Twang your magic twangy Froggie! Hiyakids hiya hiya hiya! I'llbegood I'llbegood I'llbegood!)
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To: adamj
Do you really want to belong to an orangization that condems a rather significant part of society? You folks sound like racists... What happened to throwing the first stone?

Racists? Wow, talk about throwing stones..you just tossed a rock.Nobody's talking about race here.

And belonging to a part of a group that condems a significant part of society? Homosexuals are less than 10% of society, and Lutheran homosexuals would be (I am guessing) less than 5% of that...so should the wish of many be overridden for the sake of a few? That is not what democracy is about. And I never considered homosexuals to be "signficant"...

91 posted on 01/14/2005 10:07:24 AM PST by Aut Pax Aut Bellum (Miles to go before I sleep...)
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To: kattracks

I had to check to make sure this was not the Missouri Synod Lutherans. They are the closest to my Protestant Denomination.


92 posted on 01/14/2005 10:11:24 AM PST by meema
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To: adamj
What happened to throwing the first stone?

Do you think God's laws and statutes are designed to harm homosexuals ? Do you really think he hated homosexuals so much he created laws regarding immorality that were designed to make their lives miserable ?

Sorry, my God loves everyone too much.

93 posted on 01/14/2005 10:18:52 AM PST by Raycpa (Alias, VRWC_minion,)
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To: Die Zaubertuba
Perhaps this is blind faith, but I still believe it's possible to turn that leadership around,

The Episcopalians thought this up until a gay bishop was ordained. Its not going to stop and there are probably way more for it than you know.

94 posted on 01/14/2005 10:22:44 AM PST by Raycpa (Alias, VRWC_minion,)
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To: Archie Bunker on steroids

You are right. We left the ELCA ten years ago. They were "studying" sexuality issues then. ELCA partially funded Re-Imagining workshops which was feminist theology at its worst. They substituted milk and honey for communion, milk and honey represented life giving fluid from women. One lesbian speaker said she had no need of the blood of Jesus. When we talked to our small congregation requesting to with hold funds from the ELCA, we hit a brick wall. They were afraid not to support the heirarchy. Besides, those issues would never effect this country congregation, or so they thought. They just got rid of a woman preacher that voted in favor of gay issues at the synod assembley. One of the people that thought we were kooky was shocked, shocked I tell you. Her job went down from there. I still wonder if she had been more likeable if people would have been so stern about her beliefs. One member told me they felt that the council seemed more concerned to get rid of preacher lady so that members would come back to church and not as much concerned about the stance on the issue, or so they thought. I am glad to be out of that but it is sad for so many still trying to fight. Ever heard of "Word Alone" network.


95 posted on 01/14/2005 10:29:47 AM PST by outinyellowdogcountry
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To: July 4th
You could say this is what Luther wanted the catholic church to turn to and give up it ways he saw wrong. But they did not want to heard that and lose the power they had on the people. The WELS is 150 years old and saw what was going wrong with the church than also and wanted to get back to what and only what the Bible say and back that up once again with the bible. Otherwords, Teach Truth! My parent where both raised in the Missouri church and when we moved we became members in a ALC. Speaking way out there, it wasn't until I was to be confirmed that they felt that the ALC was really out of touch with God's Truth. After doing the rounds of lutheran churches they came to the WELS! I thank God for that, and 32 years later I'm still at the WELS. I don't see them leaving God's truth and Word anytime soon. We may be small and might be call alittle off our rocker or "out of touch" with the real world, but at least we hold the the God's and Jesus' teaching and laws. I'm married to a catholic and he always tells me that the WELS are just a catholic want-a-be, I tell him I'm happy and this will be where I stay until they go off the deep end. Than I'll stay home and read my own Bible. We all must hold to the truth, and nothing else.
96 posted on 01/14/2005 10:30:42 AM PST by Romad Wife
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To: adamj

What happened to "Go and sin no more."


97 posted on 01/14/2005 10:39:33 AM PST by DManA
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To: DManA

They ALWAYS leave that part out.... : )


98 posted on 01/14/2005 10:43:19 AM PST by Politicalmom ( Since Bush was selected in 2000, shouldn't he be able to run again in 2008?)
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To: DManA

Yea, go sin, have fun! But, you'll Pay in the end! so have fun, I'm not worried about me, but maybe you should worry??


99 posted on 01/14/2005 10:45:15 AM PST by Romad Wife
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To: Raycpa

Do you think God's laws and statutes are designed to harm homosexuals ? Do you really think he hated homosexuals so much he created laws regarding immorality that were designed to make their lives miserable ?

God's law is designed to point out man's sin. You might want to substitute the word "murderer" or "robber" for your word homosexuals. No difference. They are all sins and in need of Christ's forgiveness. The law was not designed to make lives miserable but to bring people to Christ seeking his forgiveness and living in the light of God's love. God loves the sinner but He also hates the sin.


100 posted on 01/14/2005 10:48:16 AM PST by taxesareforever (Just can't seem to get enough protection for criminals.)
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