Great Britain: No change on burglar law (Gov't still wants you to hide in bathroom during break-ins)

The Sun (U.K.) ^ | January 11, 2005

[Stoat]

No change ... Charles Clarke

BREAKING NEWS

No change on burglar law

By SUN ONLINE REPORTER

THERE will be no reform of the law on how much force householders can use to tackle a burglar, the Home Secretary has decided.

 

Charles Clarke ruled that existing legislation was "sound", but needs to be better explained.

Instead, a new campaign will educate the public about how far they can go to defend their property under current law.

Prime Minister Tony Blair last month said he would support a change in the law, if Government consultations showed it was necessary.

The move followed Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir John Stevens's statement that people should be allowed to use what force was necessary when tackling intruders without facing prosecution.

At present the law says “reasonable force” can be used by householders, but campaigners complain that too many are subject to police investigation of their actions.

Debate on the issue followed the death of John Monckton who was stabbed to death during a burglary at his home in London's Chelsea last November.

• Ninety-nine percent of Brits believe they should have the right to defend their homes against burglars, a survey says.

[Slipperduke]

Top man! Good show, old bean.

*slumps into deckchair with glass of pimms and The Daily Telegraph*

[Slipperduke]

I'm with you as far as the fact that we should have the right to defend ourselves almost without boundary, if you'll excuse the cricket pun.

But, I'm still not going with the gun proliferation. I look at US shooting figures and then UK shooting figures and I prefer it our way.

It's not the guns themselves, it's the people holding them that worry me. As I'm sure you've noticed, the UK has a spectacularly high percentage of crazy people and I'm in no hurry to tool them up.

[satchmodog9]

Charles Clarke... Nice ears.

[Stoat]

The answer is to have spectacularly high penalties for criminals convicted of a crime with a gun.
Actually, the gun violence statistics in the US are highly inflated and grossly overstated by the international press. The violent crime rate in the UK has been higher than that of the US for some time, something that the UK press is usually not eager to talk about.

Despite international press pronouncements to the contrary, we in the US are not a 'wild west' society where there are High Noon shootings every day and the streets are rivers of blood.

A gun in the hands of a law-abiding citizen is a society's best bet for peace and stability.

[Ohioan]

Traditional legal principles in the Anglo-American world recognize that one can use whatever force is necessary to prevent a felony. But I guess, there as here in many jurisdictions, they are more concerned that the criminal not be killed or badly injured than in the rights of law abiding people to protect the fruits of their lives' labor.

Frankly, I would allow a one year real estate tax abatement, to any home owner who benefitted society by terminating a burglar. (That is probably far too chintzy. The saved cost of incarcerating the bastard for even a year would justify a many year abatement.)

The greater benefit to the termination, of course, would be in an example that would save other weak brained individuals from a life of crime, and other home owners from a threat--including that of visits from the one terminated.

Surely, I have proposed a reform, here, whose time has come.

William Flax Return Of The Gods Web Site

[printhead]

and pay 121 pounds a year for license to watch their own television.

[Paperdoll]

ECHOES OF THE FUTURE?


Shiver my timbers, this thread puts me in mind of "signs of things to come in Washington State as the darling of the King County burglars is sworn in as guv today."

[Ohioan]

My great hope is that it won't be too long before the citizens of Great Britain will rise up en masse to protest and change these evils that are being inflicted upon them, entirely by the Left I might add. They have been beaten down for far too long and deserve far better than this.

Yes! Actually, under Magna Carta, there should have been a Committee of Barons who called for an uprising to distress and distrain the Government, until it again respected property rights in England, throughout most of the Twentieth Century. Unfortunately, many reprints are of a later version, not the original 1215 text that King John agreed to, but those provisions are in there. England was never supposed to accept an abrogation of private property rights again.

By the way, was Clarke sober when he made this decision? He looks like a fellow who clocks far more pub hours than those in intellectual pursuit.

William Flax Return Of The Gods Web Site

[Paperdoll]

>(Gov't still wants you to hide in bathroom during break-ins)<

Talk about your constipation!

[Timocrat]

I have zero understanding of how British politics work but shouldn't such a clear majority be able to get the laws changed?

This is why we have a constitution. To protect basic rights and to prevent majoritarian abuses. Clear majorities in the UK have favoured capital punishment and still do yet their parliament still banned the practice, even the before they joined the Euro-socialist experiment.

[AmericanChef]

Hope their mailing list to burglars is up to date 'cuz they're gonna wanna get the latest news: Attention residents!! If someone breaks into your home, you are to cease and desist, and let them do whatever they want! If you attempt to stop their plundering, you will be arrested and sentenced immediately!

[Oberon]

Great Britain needs to change its name. How about "Adequate Britain" or "Mediocre Britain"?

[Winniesboy]

There's widespread misunderstanding about the nature of British law on this issue, not only outside the UK (as some of these posts demonstrate) but within the country also. The fact is that British citizens do have, and have always had, the right to use reasonable force, which can include lethal force, on intruders to their property. As the Director of Public Prosecutions has just reminded us in a radio interview I've been listening to, for every much-publicised but rare case where a householder in these circumstances has been prosecuted, there have been approximately fifty cases where no action has been taken against the householder, even when that householder has used a firearm to lethal effect. The law chooses (arguably wisely) not to attempt to define what constitutes reasonable force, but to leave this to be determined by the very different individual circumstances of each case. Only rarely, when the Crown Prosecution Service decides there is a case to answer, is a prosecution brought: and it's then up to the jury, with direction from the judge on the legal precedents, to use their judgement on whether the force used is or is not reasonable in this particular case. The Tony Martin prosecution was brought only because the intruder was outside the property and running away when shot in the back: and in that case the jury decided (although the judge made it quite clear the arguments were finely balanced) that the degree of force used was not reasonable. Part of the problem with the massive publicity at home and abroad since then is that the impression given is that the Tony Martin prosecution is the norm in Britain, when in fact it's very much the exception. Oh, and before someone asks how lethal force can legally be used when there are no legally-owned guns in the UK, just a reminder that many guns (mostly shotguns) can be legally owned, are widespread, and have been used to lethal effect without prosecution in these circumstances.

[Stoat]

It's not the guns themselves, it's the people holding them that worry me. As I'm sure you've noticed, the UK has a spectacularly high percentage of crazy people and I'm in no hurry to tool them up.

Unfortunately, they're already tooled up thanks to the easy availability of black market weapons.  Gun control laws only affect law-abiding citizens.  They won't affect criminals, because criminals are, by definition, lawbreakers anyway.

My hope is that one day you might grace our shores with a visit, and see America through your own eyes, rather than through the words of a Leftist, America-hating international press.  This Freeper would be pleased to show you around.  We could go shooting

WADE'S EASTSIDE GUNS & INDOOR RANGE - Bellevue, WA

We could even go for a steak   :-)

Ruth's Chris Steakhouse

[Stoat]

They can always throw a glass of hot tea at the burglar.

I would guess that this would be viewed as overly hostile by the 'police'...burglars, after all, have a right to practice their trade without harassment, it appears.

[Stoat]

The sun has definitely set on the British Empire.
 

I believe that it's salvageable.  I have faith in the inner strength of our British friends, but I am shocked that they have allowed things to get as bad as it has.  They have been badly beaten down and they need to rise up against their Leftist, government oppressors.  How long will it take before they do?  I shake my head over their plight and I wish that they had a strong leader to rally them in revolt.  Hopefully they will find one before it's too late.

[Stoat]

Charles Clarke... Nice ears.

Too bad they are nonfunctional, despite their exaggerated, ludicrous appearance.  He apparently cannot hear the cries of the law-abiding, honorable British families who have been victimized once by crime and then a second time by his own government, which prevents them from adequately protecting themselves and encourages more victimization as a direct result. 

[Stoat]

Surely, I have proposed a reform, here, whose time has come.

Yes you have, and an excellent one at that.  The obvious and glaring problem with it, however, is that it is a reform which is based upon logic, reality and common sense, all things that appear to be held in contempt by the British government.

[Stoat]

ECHOES OF THE FUTURE?


Shiver my timbers, this thread puts me in mind of "signs of things to come in Washington State as the darling of the King County burglars is sworn in as guv today."

I have no doubt that she views British jurisprudence as enlightened and a standard by which the rest of the world should adopt.  May God help us all.

[beaver fever]

And if you repeat the offense it's off to the boathouse with you and a taste of the switch!